Saturday, July 28, 2007

Marriage Strike Advocates New Banner? Update:1-24-12


Marriage Strike? Catch and release may be the theme of the marriage strike advocates. But what does marriage strike really mean? Posters have shared with Legal Pub that the movement started in California where alimony laws led to disastrous results for some men who were ordered to support their ex-spouses indefinitely. (This was despite their wives cheating on them and their ex living with another man or woman.) As a result, these men (and a few women) vowed to never remarry until divorce laws became fair to both sides. The movement spread to individuals who have never been married. The movement continues to gain momentum as it has spread across the country. The Bush administration tried to minimize the financial burden of marriage by reducing the "marriage tax" penalty, but it still exists today. It has never been about not supporting one's children. Obligations to support children is a given. (Marriage strike advocates who are parents tend to be great fathers and mothers who are active in their children's lives.) The movement is, however, about the law treating men and women as equals. Today, there is no logical reason why either sex should have to support an ex who is able bodied. The availability of alimony should be limited to case of financial hardship caused by disability.

Update: 8-29-07: Women may also benefit from the Marriage Strike. A recent study shows that after marriage men do less housework than when they lived with the woman!
Update 10-2-07: By Bob P. I am a marriage strike advocate and self educated financial counselor. Legal Pub allowed me to post my analysis of the financial penalties of those who do not believe in the marriage strike. Suppose a single working woman with 3 children makes $30,000 a year and a man makes 150,000 a year. The woman, because of the earned income credit will pay $0 in taxes and the man approximately $39,000. Together, their tax is $39,000. Now the cost of that little piece of paper known as a marriage license is as follows: Joint income 180,000 total tax is $44,724 which is $5,724. (This analysis is post Bush tax cuts which tried to reduce the marriage tax. The unmarried woman in the example may actually qualify to get additional money from the IRS which would just further increase the marriage penalty ) Have college bound children? A single parent who marries may lose college scholarship and financial aid due to a marriage even though the new husband (step dad) has no financial obligation to support his wife's children. Possible cost of the little piece of paper in this case could be over $100,000. Bob P.

Update 10-8-07
In a study of 9,011 British civil servants, those with the worst close relationships were 34 percent more likely to have heart attacks or other heart trouble during 12 years of follow-up than those with good relationships. That included partners, close relatives and friends according to a study in Monday's Archives of Internal Medicine. 'OK, being married is in general good, but be careful about the kind of person you have married.' The quality of the relationship matters," said author Roberto De Vogli, of University College in London. Over the following 12 years, 589 participants had heart attacks or other heart problems. Those with the highest negative scores on the questionnaire had the highest risks, even taking into account other factors such as obesity, high blood pressure and smoking. James Coyne, a University of Pennsylvania psychology professor who also has examined the health impact of social relationships, said De Vogli's results "make intuitive sense."

Update 4-14-09. Some information concerning unfair alimony. LINK.

Update 1-24-12:
A study published in the Journal of Marriage and Family has found that the physical and emotional benefits of marriage do not outweigh the benefits of just living together. Science Daily. The study by Cornell University's College of Human Ecology, followed 2,737 single men and women from the National Survey of Families and Households for six years. 896 of those folks either married or moved in with their partners. Compared to those who stayed single, both married and cohabitating participants experienced the same increase in well-being (based on questions about their happiness.

66 comments:

blond bombshell said...

I actually agree on the concept of equality. No one needs alimony unless they are incapable of working.


Shell

Brenda said...

Now, here is where I disagree, Shell. A man should be obligated to support a woman forever. If he says I do, he better! Even if she divorces him, unless another man promises "I do", the first man needs to continue to support her.

That's the way it should work. And if men don't want to take on the commitment, then they should not do it. But baby, if you say I do don't complain you are stuck paying my bills until I remarry.


Brenda

Anonymous said...

Iron Mike said...

Brenda, women like you who have a "support them until they die" attitude is the reason for "Marriage Strike" advocates. While I am not one of them,your post makes me think maybe I should have thought about it.

My second wife is great. But we both agreed to a prenuptial that said no alimony and divided our property in advance if we divorce.I am glad I had a prenuptial as is my wife, but I am relatively certain that I will never need it because we continue to be happy.

Iron Mike

Ron said...

Brenda, sorry but I agree with Shell and Mike on this one. This must be the first time all three of us agreed on anything!

colleency said...

Brenda - Why should a man pay alimony forever, or until another man agrees to support a woman? Does it make a difference if a woman earns more than her ex-husband? - should he still pay her? If a woman becomes a drug addict, and they divorce, should he still pay her?

I'm really curious about your thoughts on this; I haven't heard these viewpoints before.

(seems to me that a woman says 'I do', too - and if she doesn't - ie, she leaves him - then she's the one breaking the contract)

brenda said...

Here's the scoop, people. Many women stay home to care for the kids. When they leave their husbands, it is usually because they are under appreciated, cheated on, or for some other legitimate reason. Keep in mind, I agree with Shell that all men are pigs or at least have the "pig tendency."

When the woman becomes divorced she is under experienced in the work force. Consequently the man should pay alimomy to make up for the oppressive times. And yes, in marrige women are typically oppressed and do not become liberated until divorce and alimony.

A man knows that I do means he pays until death do you part. Not til divorce do you part. Men, be a man and keep your promise. Pay until my death or until some other man agrees to support me forever.

Pretty simple principle, it is just "contract law."

Brenda

Ms. Calabaza said...

Wow! That's a lot of assumptions there, Brenda. I think that's really too one-sided. I wonder (if you don't mind my asking) do you have sons? How would you feel if a woman took your son for a RIDE and then wanted alimony for life?

colleency said...

I kinda don't understand how women become truly liberated when the ex is supporting them.

It sounds to me like the woman is infantilized.

Certainly, the ex should pay for training to help her become self-supporting.

But, c'mon! - if she's stayed home to raise the kids, she's strong, smart, and highly skilled in time management, task delegation, supervision, training, nutrition, financial management,etc etc ...

I think it does women a disservice to say that they are incapable for supporting themselves.

Jessica said...

I think a woman or man is entitled to alimony if she has been a stay at home mom/dad for a good number of years. Its hard to find a job after being out of the workforce for a good number of years. But I think it should be treated like unemployment pay. You must be actively searching for employment, and as soon as you cohabitate or marry someone else, alimony stops.

If Marriage Strike Advocates are all about equality, why would they have such a distasteful banner? Women go bad after a few days? Only the fresh ones are good? Sounds more like misogyny than equality to me .

Anonymous said...

The banner is an attempt at humor... catch and release. The real message is men, do not marry until alimony laws are eliminated.


Jim

vicki said...

Would marriage strikers need God is A Woman type advice to ensure against being lonely?

Just curious...

Vicki

Anonymous said...

Appreciate the story. Too many of us our scared to post because we don't want woman to automatically reject us just because we will never marry until the laws change...

blond bombshell said...

Nasty divorce settlement. Hey pigs, divorce is the screwing you get for the screwing you got!

Now, some might think I am bitter. I am not. But I am single, imagine that?

Shell

Anonymous said...

catch and release is the answer.

Bob P. said...

Glory be... folks are starting to listen. Men Marriage Strike is for real!

Do not place your lives or assets in jeopardy.

Drive divorce lawyers out of business! Say after me:

Marriage strike, marriage strike, marriage strike!

Bob P.

Anonymous said...

Not necessarily the banner, but funny as heck! Yup catch and release is but one way to avoid marriage pitfalls...

greg said...

Marriage strike is more than an idea... it is a way of life.


Greg

Julie said...

I could not imagine my man doing any less work around the house then he does now. So I will stay single too.

Julie

Sue said...

I hear you Julie.

Men are lazy enough before marriage, why give them a license to get worse!

Sue

Anonymous said...

I would tend to agree. With existing laws men have every reason not to marry, and with equal opportunity women have no reason to marry. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Liberation has freed both genders, men get what they want without marriage anyway, sex with a multitude of partners without commitment and women get their independence from men, and with IVF can go it alone. Everyone wins. I new 20 years ago in my teens marriage is on its way out, polygamy was first to go, now monogamy next. The courts and country would be better off if it did not even recognize it’s existence.

Gabrielle said...

Right on! Men and women should be together because they choose to be together. In order to do that, each must be on their best behavior.

This notion that women need marriage as a finacial security blanket is bullsh*t. We no longer need big brother to protect us.

Gabrielle

gina said...

Bob, your financial analysis really opened my eyes. Marriage can screw woman financially too. Maybe that is one reason why woman end up initiating divorce in over 75% of the cases. (They realize financially they will be better off divorced because of the tax system (child support is not taxed) and the reduced tax rate.


Gina

Legal Pub said...

Marriage Strike update courtesy of Bob does a good job giving an example of the tax penalty on marriage. I believe it is done with 2006 figures. Please feel free to post your Marriage Strike comments and criticisms.

blond bombshell said...

I never realized the tax advantages to marriage strike...

Shell

Legal Pub said...

Update 10-8-07 In a study of 9,011 British civil servants, those with the worst close relationships were 34 percent more likely to have heart attacks or other heart trouble during 12 years of follow-up than those with good relationships. That included partners, close relatives and friends according to a study in Monday's Archives of Internal Medicine.

'OK, being married is in general good, but be careful about the kind of person you have married.' The quality of the relationship matters," said author Roberto De Vogli, of University College in London. Over the following 12 years, 589 participants had heart attacks or other heart problems. Those with the highest negative scores on the questionnaire had the highest risks, even taking into account other factors such as obesity, high blood pressure and smoking.

James Coyne, a University of Pennsylvania psychology professor who also has examined the health impact of social relationships, said De Vogli's results "make intuitive sense."

kyle said...

This marriage strike movement needs to be reported in mainstream media as it is picking up steam much like the bra burning women of the 60s and 70s.


Kyle

marriage striker said...

All the guys I know 55 and older are telling me the same story; don't do it. It just turns to crap no matter what you do. They'd rather be independent. At best it's a tedious bore. At worst a living hell with financial ruin thrown in for good measure. When you're young, you just naturally fall into this mind set where your whole self image is based on how women regard you. So you spend all your money and energy trying to make yourself acceptable to them. Then later in life the shine wears off and you finally realize that you've wasted yourself on a bunch of crap.Then you pay through the nose a divorce settlement and maybe even alimony! Just say no!

Anonymous said...

agree with several of the comments made in this Blog. First of all marriage is too much of a risk for men to enter nowadays. The women of today look at men as walking wallets, they are pure gold-diggers, for women marriage is not looked at as what can I bring but what can I take. Men are seen as retirement plans not life partners. As far as divorce is concerned what is more unhealthy for a child then being brought up in a dysfunctional home full of arguing and abuse. I personally grew up in a home where my parents stayed together because of the kids and I wish they would have divorced because it caused us more harm than good. As far as the way things "use to be done" not all history is good history does anyone remember the Chrusades. Anyone wanna go back to the "old days"! Hell NO!!

Dollar Bill said...

From my earlier point about training people for marriage we need to stress upon guys and subsequently our court system that marriage is seen as a business for many women with guys as the paycheck. Most of the divorces filed today are filed by women and when she gets her divorce (or fired since it is a business) she gets alimony (or severence pay/unemployment) and just moves onto the next job/guy. Take away the cash incentives at the end of the line and you will see a huge drop in the amount of divorces. Whenever you give money to someone for walking away from a commitment they are going to take off. Stop with the divorce incentives and you won't have as many divorces!!! It's economics!!!

Dollar Bill

Anonymous said...

I was watching the news last night, and they said a govt. survey estimated 41% of newborns were born with single mothers in 2006

In 1972 the number was 10%!


Stat Man

blond bombshell said...

My first question would be, how many are born to a 2-parent household that are simply not married? Many folks are not getting married these days, but having children. As long as there are two parents raising the child, there is no immorality! immoral is when a man or woman refuses to parent a child.

Shell

P.S. It's easy to love your child. For some, it's difficult to be there to support your child and BE a father. To give up, or get lazy (Moms or Dads)is inexcusable

Pam said...

here isn't much incentive to get married these days.Back in the day, if the woman didn't marry, the baby couldn't have the father's last name. These days, you can put whatever you choose for a name and that makes sense.

Back in the day, a woman would have a hard time making the father fulfill his financial responsibility in raising the child if you didn't marry. Today it makes no difference whether you were married or not.

Back in the day, there was a stigma attached to an illegitimate "bastard" child. Today, it's not only excepted, it is trendy.

It is just the way it is.

If one of my kids were expecting a baby out of wedlock, I wouldn't encourage them to marry just because of it. It just further complicates a the situation. Plus, those marriages have an even higher failure rate than other situations.

Pam

california surfer dude said...

Then there was a man who said, "I never knew what real happiness was until I got married, and by then, it was too late."

Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.


Surfer Dude

Anonymous said...

Awesome surfer dude!

Anonymous said...

The reason for marriage strike is because the laws are all formulated to protect the interest of the women and not the men.

Anonymous said...

With people getting married and divorced so quickly today. Is there really any point to marrying anymore. If Divorce is going to be an outcome, why get married. I keep seeing so many family and friends getting divorced.

Problems are for us to conquere. They are not supposed drown us. Its getting to the point where, I am really thinking about not ever getting married. Does anyone see people working things out or is divorce a natural social evalution that we must accept?

G

Anonymous said...

G, here is my take. Neglecting the relationship after marriage is a recipe for divorce. Unfortunately, this seems to be the normal pattern. Personally, I don't see the point of getting married. However, it's a social institution that is ingrained in our society. When people think they are in love, they are inclined to do illogical things, like signing a paper and throwing an expensive party.

I don't intend this as a marriage is evil post, but the reality is that it has no logical basis in fact other than to financially protect women who really no longer need protection. That being said, marriage is not going away anytime soon because it is so ingraned in the minds of young girls who grow up to be women.

Holly

Anonymous said...

If you want to stay single, let your girlfriend find out that you are reading this crap!



Janet

Anonymous said...

Men are just chicken sh*t that they are going to lose their retirement and their business... Big deal. Divorce is the screwing you get for the screwing you got.

If you are going to play, you are going to pay.

Chris

Marriage Strike Man said...

Chris, you are flat @ss wrong. Weisman conducted a survey of 1,533 heterosexual men to research a book intending to give women an insight into why smart, successful men opted to stay single.

He concluded that most men were not afraid of marriage -- but they were afraid of a bad marriage.

"Men are 10 times more scared of marrying the wrong person than of never getting married at all," Weisman told Reuters.

"This is the first generation of people who have grown up with bad divorces. People assume there is something wrong if you don't marry but these are men who have made a different choice and not given in to social pressures."

"So Why Have You Never Been Married? - Ten Insights into Why He Hasn't Wed," explains a trend for more people to stay single, with less social or religious pressures to tie the knot.

Weisman said that in 1980 about 6 percent of men in their early 40s had never married. This number has now rose to 17 percent.

In sum, it is bad marriages men fear. And women like you, Chris make fo horrible marriages.

Anonymous said...

Women fear being alone. Men fear being in a failing marriage. Some of the negative consequences of marriage are downright frightening. This is why men take their time. It is preferable to have friends, career, and hobbies and be happy, rather than experience one of those horrible marriages and divorces.

It's so much easier for women to ATTACK men, rather than be supportive. This only serves to legitimize men's fears.

Look at the discussions regarding divorce, prenups, marriage, alimony, and a father's rights.
Why should women be patient? When she can simply divorce a man and be better off. Men view marriage as such a potentially hazardous situation, that many prefer to avoid it. But women still want to be married. Men have already created a solution. We simply stop marrying women. This removes legal issues surrounding marriage and divorce, and if men never have kids, they don't have to worry about custody. Women put bearing children 1st VERY often.

Men do not fear commitment. But men should not knowingly walk into a minefield, hoping they'll be lucky enough not to be blown up.

Stay gold men. Stay single.

Annie W.

Anonymous said...

Your stats are too low! 17% of men used to never marry. That number is now in the 20's and approaching 30%.

jimmie said...

There is nothing a man can do to be safe. It is still to much of a gamble for a man to marry in this culture.

The best advice to men is to remain single. The best advice to a woman is either accept a man's love and commitment without marriage or move on to someone else.

Jimmie

Anonymous said...

It's a well known fact today that men and women are not meant to live together.

That's why marriage was such a horrible idea to begin with.

The same goes for kids: women have children: not men.
I do believe that women should be the only care takers of children and that they must raise their kids on their own, with their own money.

It should be women raising the next generation of workers and tax payers.

Anonymous said...

As long as I can sit back, watch t.v and drink beer I am fine with it. You can mail my welfare check to my front porch.

Hairy Back said...

I have this whole marriage strike issue figured out.The Single male is putting off traditional markers of adulthood like marriage not because he’s immature but because he’s angry. The reason for the anger is because he percieves todays woman as dishonest, self-involved, slutty, manipulative, shallow, controlling, and gold-digging. He’s angry because marriage these days is a raw deal for men.

Afterall, who wants a woman who is only after money and a free ride.

Harry & Sally

greg said...

Too many rules have developed around courtship. Back in the day, a man knew he was supposed to call for a date; he was supposed to pick up his date; he was supposed to take his date out, and if the date went well, he was supposed to call for another one. At some point, if the relationship was exciting enough or if the woman got pregnant, he proposed. Typically, the marriage would end in midlife crisis and the start of a new relationship with someone else. Today, that scenario no longer exists for most.
Today, men and women are socially, professionally, and sexually equals. But with a woman, she may want one thing in November and another by Christmas. There are now a multiplicity of female expectations and desires. Many want the bad boy and the metrosexual.

This attraction to bad boys is a huge male complaint! Women say they want sensitive, kind, thoughtful, intelligent men who were in touch with their feminine sides. But they pick bad ass men instead. Nice guys finish last. But are there even any nice guys who want marriage left? Not many because women ignored them. They were used as emotional teddy bears without "physical intimacy.” This is the reason for men's negative attitude toward marriage.


Greg

brenda said...

Let's face it guys, women, he says, are not attracted to men who hold doors for them etc. It's not an act. It is reality! Even our popular t.v. shows portray men as losers: Ray Romano, Tim Allen, or the idiots on the beer comercials. Furthermore, watching real life divorce men see women as highway robbers out to relieve men of their earnings and their children.

Brenda

Anonymous said...

Darwinism (natural selection) mandates adaptation by men. Women desire alpha males. So guys, there is no reason to answer the phone when a woman calls. There is no reason to return her call. But it is ok to text message: Yo let's hook up at the pub sometime tonight. So girls, when you do go out on a so called date, always be looking for an “upgrade.”

Pam

Anonymous said...

The way I see it, most women make their decision of whether to be attracted to someone on the basis of the man's wallet size. “Girls know the math.” Attractive women will drop their ‘dates’ at the chance of a bigger, better deal. It is fact, guys. Get over it!

jeff said...

I like the new rules and I love being single. I can have sex with as many women as I want because I got a great job and a flashy set of wheels. Men should enjoy their freedom and fun. The name of the game is clear. Have sex with as many women as possible!

Women continue to prefer bigger, stronger, richer men! They almost always marry men who are taller and several years older.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

Narcissistic, risk-taking men are more exciting. Sculpted bodies attract me! It may be biological but I would rather date an alpha male then settle down with a wimp! Toughness and unsentimental promiscuity is attractive. I admit it, I want a "real man" to father my children. I want to tame the beast.


Christine

jimmie said...

Twenty-two percent of men in the National Marriage Project’s survey were “relatively hardcore marriage avoiders.” This is too small of a number. We need to grow to at least 50%. If reading all these comments does not straighten men out, nothing will. Mistrust of women and skeptism of "lifelong commitment" are legitimate concerns.

When a real man can sow all he wants, why not leave the work to the wimps? The answer is real simple: let the wimps marry and lose their money after their wives invite us into their beds.


Jimmie

Ginny said...

Women's relationships typically follow a predictable pattern:

They push men for commitment

They get what they want

They lose interest in sex

They become attracted to someone else

They start cheating

They become angry and resentful

They begin telling their partners that they space.

They blame their partners for their behavior...and eventually, make themselves and everyone around them miserable. Then they end their relationships or marriages.

If you're a male, you would probably never suspect that your partner is cheating, not only because of your wife’s or girlfriend’s seeming disinterest in sex; but also because you have the belief that your wife or girlfriend is a “good girl.” Unfortunately, males are left/divorced by their wives and girlfriends without ever knowing about the infidelities.

Wake up guys!

Ginny

Anonymous said...

Married men have been getting some on the side dating back as far as as 2,000 years. The saying is: Prostitution is the oldest profession.There's a reason behind that.........(ie marriage)

Mini

Anonymous said...

Until Jimmie some husbands come home to find bad boyz bonking their wives, to which they might react with gunshots. Guys like you and the cum dumpster whores who sleep with the likes of you are a major reason for the marriage strike. I will never pay for another man's bastard kids, ever, I know American women too well to be that stupid. I'm not married, and I intend to stay that way while you enjoy the disease ridden sluts. Enjoy the herpes that is out there, or being in jail.

tony said...

Anon, right on. I am not for adultry or marriage. But I will sleep with the single women. But I will never trust a gal to be faithful.

Tony

Anonymous said...

I've been around, folks and here is what I have learned:

Men get married because they find a woman that they really love and want to be with. Otherwise, men generally prefer to be single.

Women are taught from the time that they are little girls, that they should get married. In fact, finding a husband is like a huge beauty pagent. The winners get husbands.

Most women have also been taught that having kids must be the ultimate goal as well. As a practical matter, having children is financial security the way our child support system works.

In todays dating climate, most of my clients that get married within a year from the time they meet their spouse have a horrible marriage. Haste translates into disaster.

Doc

Hill Billie said...

I am female. I think that marriage is often a false security blanket. Two people committed to each other do not need a piece of paper issued by the state! Marriage should be left to the various religions and should not be an issue for the courts. Marriage should have absolutely nothing to do with government.

I married (after way too short of a relationship) in my early 20's for all the wrong reasons. I was caught up in the "it's what you're supposed to do" mentality.

Hill Billie

jester said...

Saying that there is a tax advantage to marriage is like saying there is a weight loss advantage to having your legs amputated!

Jester

Legal Pub said...

Some good information about the wrongs of alimony.


http://marriagestrikecentral.blogspot.com/2008/09/did-you-know-alimony-videos.html#links

Anonymous said...

Alimony is not the only reason to strike against marriage. Unfair child support and custody laws are equally compelling.

Granny said...

U marriage strike guys rock.

Legal Pub said...

Update 1-24-12: A study published in the Journal of Marriage and Family has found that the physical and emotional benefits of marriage do not outweigh the benefits of just living together. Science Daily. The study by Cornell University's College of Human Ecology, followed 2,737 single men and women from the National Survey of Families and Households for six years. 896 of those folks either married or moved in with their partners. Compared to those who stayed single, both married and cohabitating participants experienced the same increase in well-being (based on questions about their happiness.

Anonymous said...

This is not anti women. It is anti marriage! Very few reasons to marry someone of any sex in this day and age.

T.J. said...

http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2010/05/science-confirms-that-unhappy-marriages.html has an update on the type of women not to marry! See 6-10-13 update if you are interested.


T.J.