Friday, June 6, 2008

Should Citizen Apathy And Lack of Sympathy in Hartford Be Held Accountable If Angel Arce Torres (Pedestrian) Dies? by Legal Pub


Should apathy and lack of sympathy in Hartford be punished? Angel Arce Torres, a 78-year-old man was a hit-and-run victim in Hartford, a city of 125,000 people. Torres laid motionless on a busy city street and drivers and pedestrians did nothing! One driver stops then gets back into a line of traffic. Another man on a scooter circles the victim then drives away. Streetlight surveillance captures the disappointing lack of humanity. Police chief Daryl Roberts said, "We no longer have a moral compass.... We have no regard for each other."

Police hope to identify the hit and run driver and make an arrest. But how about arresting the bystanders who did nothing? Angel Arce Torres is in critical condition. If he dies, his blood is not only on the hit and run driver, it is on everyone who did nothing. All that evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

If anyone saw a tan Toyota with a dark Honda chasing it in Hartford, please contact the Hartford police.
A new James Pence Video appears to be right on point when it comes to apathy and a new form of terrorism. Video

42 comments:

blond bombshell said...

This is so sad. Maybe they thought he was a drunk laying in the road. Nevertheless, someone should have helped him.

Shell

Anonymous said...

I loved the James Pence Video!

Legal Pub said...

The YouTube video was actually sent to Legal Pub by Joel Brodsky.

Anonymous said...

Apathy is a form of terrorism!

Anonymous said...

Leaving a man in the street sucks. The video of terrorist like apathy is similar in that it shows how we are sitting on our butts doing nothing about bad things...

Ms Calabaza said...

Sheesh,

Shell may have a point, maybe they thought he was drunk . . . I can't believe people would just leave the guy there though.

Anonymous said...

Well they did and he might die because of the neglectful uncaring passerbyers!

Anonymous said...

If you watch the video there are plenty of people standing on the street watching as the man is hit and flung through the air.

He ended up with a split skull and was bleeding profusely.

Those people were completely aware of what had happened and did not call. They were also right outside of what looks like a convenience store and no one asked the clerk to call.

Kate said...

Note to self: Don't get too intoxicated in Hartford and stay off the streets!

Anonymous said...

It is a shame!

Anonymous said...

Neglectful bystander.. a new civil tort?

Anonymous said...

Pence video is neat

Legal Pub said...

L.S. where are you on this one?

Anonymous said...

Is apathy really evil? I almost was too lazy to ask.

Did You Stop to Think? said...

I got hit by a truck on a busy street when I was nine, right in the face; the driver ran a red light. It knocked me back onto the ground. My face was bleeding, I sat there screaming and people just walked by, looking at me, even those who saw me got hit. (The trucker drove away immediately.) Worse, a truck I was knocked behind started to back up, nearly crushing me. I got up and ran home (I lived right there on the corner).

I rang the bell, my mom answered, and she refused to let me in until I stopped screaming and calmed down. After like 10 minutes she finally figured out something was wrong and came downstairs to find me all bloodied up.

Yup, people just can't be bothered sometimes. It's pretty unbelievable.

What's even sadder is that today everyone has a cell. How hard is it to just call 911? Apparently, very hard! Where's the Seinfeld Good Samaritan Law?

Anonymous said...

There's a Seinfeld episode about this - the very last episode. What state were they in when the crew got tossed in the slammer under the "good samaratin" law? Somewhere in New England...

Anonymous said...

How pitful and sad to see this uncaring type of behavior. I can't even grasp how someone could watch that man get hit and do nothing.
I don't know if those who stood by should be held accountable in a court of law.
note to self don't move to Hartford.

Anonymous said...

This is awful. No excuses. Just plain awful.

Anonymous said...

I don’t have anything really positive to say here.

As for a tort? No going to work. A stranger has no duty. Can’t have a tort without a duty of care.

As for why he’s there? I submit its due in no small part to the fact that we have so few true warriors left in our society. We just don’t raise them anymore. And when I say warriors, I say it in a broad sense as in “fighting evil and bad things by our own actions”.

Bad guy breaking into your house? Run for the phone. Not! With God as my witness I hate that damn commercial! And you know the ones I’m speaking of. Blow that dirtbag back out the door! Kill him yourself! I quote a hero of mine, Col. Jeff Cooper, “Fight back! Whenever you are offered violence, fight back! The aggressor does not fear the law, so he must be taught to fear you. Whatever the risk, and at whatever the cost, fight back!"

We are a society of wimps that looks to others to solve problems. Call the cops, call the firemen, call the government, call the…call anybody but don’t do anything yourself. Heck, let somebodys else do the calling? Just not me.

I get that there are times when prudence supports calling the “experts”. But there are equally times when expertise is not needed and/or the delay in their arrival will be problematic. That’s the case here. I’m not a medical doctor, nor a paramedic. But it should not take a rocket scientist to hold traffic, apply pressure to the spurting wounds, keep the sun out of his eyes, and talk to him and let him know help is on the way. And if it be his time, not to let him die alone.

But that would take guts. Intestinal fortitude. Having a pair. Having seen a John Wayne movie and liked it. Blah, blah, blah, etc.

You mean risk to myself? I might get hurt? There’s blood, and traffic, and circumstances that are different than my set daily routine, and he might die, and…

Yep. That’s right. I said it. Drop a pair (fugitively speaking of course, I know many true warrior women) and do something!

L.S.

Anonymous said...

It's nice of Joel Brodsky to provide the link to this video for you.

What does you think of this quote from the forum where he has chosen to blog and do Q&A (http://wespeakourmind.proboards50.com/)? This post doesn't come from some random troll. This is from the owner and administrator of the site:

"Well I know one thing the reason you don't see white constantly protesting and marching for some stupid ass reason is because whites are busy actually working and trying to be productive pillars of the comunity Instead of crying, bitching and moaning about how the white man is keeing us down and complaing that the Gov. is not doing enough as in giving out free bs and hand outs. "

Anonymous said...

If you register and visit the site, make sure to pay attention to the thread called "Ponder on this for a bit". It's post after post of racist rant by the admin of the site.

There's also a thread devoted solely to Joel Brodsky with a scan of his business card as the first post.

Why did Joel choose that site as his online home?

Anonymous said...

A li'l excerpt from the site where Joel has been posting below:

"Of American Negro Slavery that some planters instituted profit sharing for their slaves. They also tell us that “the average pecuniary income actually received by a prime field hand was roughly fifteen per cent greater than the income he would have received for his labor as a free agricultural worker.” Wonder why public school books never mention that?

On some plantations the best workers were given tobacco, whiskey, cash, and holidays and trips to town on the weekend. Rather substantial year-end bonuses were sometime awarded."

Legal Pub said...

Welcome L.S. Your view point is always so refreshing. I know you would not have left the hurt man stranded, nor would a warrior like I.

As for the poster who attacks J.B. for giving us a link to a YouTube post on apathy and terrorism, I truly question your motives. What does your accusation of racism have to do with a poor guy lying in the street and no one stopping to help?

It is pretty clear you dislike J.B. Okay, we understand that. You think D.P. is guilty. Alright. But this forum and its contributors are color blind. Please leave the racial and prejudicial accusations off the board unless it is directly on the topic.

Anonymous said...

"It is pretty clear you dislike J.B. Okay, we understand that. You think D.P. is guilty."

I didn't see any mention at all about Drew Peterson in the above posts. LegalPub, where are you getting that info?

Mail Man said...

Anonymous wrote:
"It's nice of Joel Brodsky to provide the link to this video for you. What does you think of this quote from the forum where he has chosen to blog and do Q&A (http://wespeakourmind.proboards50.com/)? This post doesn't come from some random troll. This is from the owner and administrator of the site: "Well I know one thing the reason you don't see white constantly protesting and marching for some stupid ass reason is because whites are busy actually working and trying to be productive pillars of the comunity Instead of crying, bitching and moaning about how the white man is keeing us down and complaing that the Gov. is not doing enough as in giving out free bs and hand outs. "

I am not L.P. but pretty clear why he thinks the above post and two more after it are "off topic."

Anonymous said...

Point made.

Anonymous said...

Back to the subject at hand...

I wonder if some people think that so many people have cell phones and that someone else must have called. Please remember that we should look out for each other - no matter what our race, religion, or other differences we may have had.

What ever happened to the "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" logic that my parents instilled in me (and I instill in my children).

I recently drove past a spot on a cold winter nigh where I saw strange smoke that I'd never seen in that area before. I made my husband turn around even though he thought it was nothing. Well it was something - it was a house on fire. Some other people pulled over as well and the men ran through the snow to the house and banged on the doors but it was too hot for them to risk opening it. A few of us called 911 (although my dang cell phone wouldn't work when I needed it most!) and the fire department was there quickly. The neighbors said that the people's car wasn't there so they were likely not home but a dog may have been inside. We had to leave before finding out exactly what happened because our car was in the way of the fire trucks and there was no where else to park - but we made sure it was in the hands of trained crews before leaving.

I don't think the people will be charged with a crime (aside from the person driving the car that hit him) - but I hope they at least live with some guilty and shame for their lack of actions to help someone obviously in need.

Secrets said...

LEGAL WHERE IS YOUR COMMENT ABOUT LEAVING RACIAL AND PREJUDICIAL ACCUSATIONS OFF THE BOARD WITH THE QUOTE POSTED BELOW?????

"Well I know one thing the reason you don't see white constantly protesting and marching for some stupid ass reason is because whites are busy actually working and trying to be productive pillars of the comunity Instead of crying, bitching and moaning about how the white man is keeing us down and complaing that the Gov. is not doing enough as in giving out free bs and hand outs. "

THIS QUOTE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC!!! VERY OFFENSIVE AND RACIST.

With regard to story, most of you seem to be unfamiliar and unconcerned with Hartford and its plight.

I’m not suggesting that they shouldn’t have helped this poor man. I am however suggesting that the daily shootings, murders, police brutality, and poverty that the citizens of Hartford have to deal with (with no cure in sight and no concern from authorities) may have caused them to be desensitized and numb to this hit and run.

Initially onlookers may have thought that the hit and run was some type of retribution or revenge or a gang related crime. Thus they would be fearful to get involved because of what happens to snitches. It goes with the territory.

Know the city before you judge the citizens

Anonymous said...

Secrets - If that is the case then the bad guys have won the battle there. I see there in many cases in the Chicago area too.

Fear is a big, big motivator of keeping people silent indeed.

I just wish that people could band together and realize that putting their head in the sand just makes it worse down the line.

Anonymous said...

The question is should there be legal consequences for not helping someone in need. A law could be passed that it would create tortuous interference. Should there be such a law?

FerfeLaBat said...

There are several angles to this one from my perspective.

a. He was J-walking.

b. The likely hood that if you walk out into the street you will be the next one hit is high. Self preservation may have kicked in there.

c. You can't really tell from the video that there is no one calling 911 so that is a wash.

d. One car stopped and for some weird reason drove off and is obviously a squid.

Personal story that is probably irrelevant but I will share anyway

My son was hit by a car on A1A on the beach. Because it was my son I was in the street immediately, cell phone in one hand, the other hand on his chest to hold him down and still in case he'd broken something. I can tell you there were a dozen strangers right there with me caring for my daughter and stopping traffic. The car was a wreck but the kid was fine. He's a tough little guy. Cute, too.

In conclusion

I posit that had Angel been cute, someone would have rushed to his aid.

Hope he's ok. That car that stopped and drove off is a squid.

Secrets said...

If there were legal consequences for not helping someone in need then our entire government would have violated that law when they stood by for a week and didnt help the flood victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Their crys for help went unanswered. Subsequently people (mostly people of color) died. Much like the man lying in the street.

Our government set a wonderful example for the rest of the country. Its no wonder people can sit by idly watching others suffer.

Secrets said...

"CRIES"

Anonymous said...

I have to respond to the “criticism of Katrina” handling.

1st responders are just that 1st responders. They’re local police and/or Sheriffs, for example. They’re relatively sparsely equipped and can’t do a whole lot. But the trade off is they’re quick…they can get there is 10-15 minute on a good day.

Next up the food chain are State resources. They’re much better equipped and can bring many more resources to bear. But the trade off is lack of speed. 2-3 days is a good response time, depends on site of occurrence, pre-positioning of equipment, etc. 3-5 days is not unheard off.

Next is national resources. They’re massive. They can bring it all…and then some. But the trade off is speed. They’re slow. Need transport helicopters? We got ‘em. In Tennessee…for the earthquake in California. Need water purification equipment? We got it…in Georgia… for the flood in Indiana.

No, a week was quick. And you’d better believe it. When it happens again, and it will, hope they get there in a week.

How about, “bugging out and/or be prepared to take care of yourself for at least two weeks?” I live in a hurricane zone. Been there, done that. You’re on your own for at least a week. And that was not a flood plain called New Orleans!

I get so sick of the BS “where were you?” I was trying to get here.

And they were to. I member seeing all kinds of heavy lift equipment moving the day after. Chinooks, Blackhawks, Huyes, C130, it was moving. 2-3 days there. A day or two setting up. Get fuel depots prepositioned, evac points established, food, water…

A week? Damn good job!

L.S.

Legal Pub said...

I have to agree with L.S. as he is the voice of reason and experience on this one. It is so easy to criticise the government, but the fact is, supplies, resource and manpower can not be moved over night. Are their areas to improve? You bet! Can we blame a response time of a week? Well, anyone can point blame, but when you look at the facts and compare it to other countries and their national disasters, we look real good in my opinion.

Legal Pub said...

criticise

law dog said...

I would make it a criminal and civil law to knowingly ignore a person that you know is injured or in distress.

Law Dog

Secrets said...

Legal and LS you may think a week is good timing. The victims disagree strongly.
Here is a clip from the LA times regarding the timeline.

TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

Full timeline can be found at
http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/

If after reading this link, you feel the government did a good job then something is seriously wrong.

Secrets said...

These people are still living in devistation and in Fema trailers. Its been years. Is that good timing too or a lack of sympathy?

There should be a law against that!

Secrets said...

here's another excerpt then I'm going to let this go.

TIM RUSSERT: Jefferson Parish President Broussard, let me start with you. You just heard [Michael Chertoff] director of Homeland Security's explanation of what has happened this last week. What is your reaction?
AARON BROUSSARD: We have been abandoned by our own country. Hurricane Katrina will go down in history as one of the worst storms ever to hit an American coast, but the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history. I am personally asking our bipartisan congressional delegation here in Louisiana to immediately begin congressional hearings to find out just what happened here. Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired? And believe me, they need to be fired right away, because we still have weeks to go in this tragedy. And whoever is at the top of this totem pole, that totem pole needs to be chain-sawed off and we've got to start with some new leadership. It's not just Katrina that caused all these deaths in New Orleans here. Bureaucracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area, and bureaucracy has to stand trial before Congress now. It's so obvious. Sir, they were told like me, every single day, 'The cavalry's coming,' on a federal level, 'The cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming.' I have just begun to hear the hoofs of the cavalry. The cavalry's still not here yet, but I've begun to hear the hoofs, and we're almost a week out. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, 'Come get the fuel right away.' When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. 'FEMA says don't give you the fuel.' Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, 'No one is getting near these lines.' Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis. Governor Blanco sent in the National Guard. I just repaired a breach on my side of the 17th Street canal that the secretary didn't foresee, a 300-foot breach. I just completed it yesterday with convoys of National Guard and local parish workers and levee board people. It took us two and a half days working 24/7. I just closed it. And I want to give you one last story and I'll shut up and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me. The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, 'Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?' And he said, 'Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday.' And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night. Nobody's coming to get us. Nobody's coming to get us. The secretary has promised. Everybody's promised. They've had press conferences. I'm sick of the press conferences. For God sakes, shut up and send us somebody. (crying)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8004316/

A host of other quotes can be found at this link.
http://www.dickgregory.com/katrina_chronicle.html

Anonymous said...

I’ve reviewed the timeline. And I agree in principle that it’s fairly accurate. And I still say the response time is about the best you’re going to get.

There is simply NO WAY that a disaster of that magnitude can be dealt with in any real practical manner in any quicker and better way. Well, not without the practical knowledge that comes from actually doing it. Practice is one thing. Doing is another. And FEMA is not that practiced. I’d guess that’s a good thing.

Superdome completely evacuated on 09/03 from a storm that turned a city into a lake on 08/29. That’s 5 days!

Fantastic work guys! Good job!

Debrief and do a better job next time? Sure!

Call it a total and pathetic response? Well, not by anybody who was doing the responding. Only those who sat waiting for others to help.

Typical.

L.S.

Legal Pub said...

Secret, it is not that we should not always strive to improve. We should. But L.S. is one of the folks who has responded to emergencies before. He is a front line type of guy. He understands the logistics of moving slow.

Compare it to the earth quake in China. Did we not respond faster?

How about the flooding in Iowa and Indiana? There was no warning. Response time is never fast enough when it is you in trouble. Yet, it is so much better in this country than in others. Sometimes I think U.S. citizens take too much for granted...