Monday, December 10, 2007

Shooting Back In Colorado May Have Prevented More Deaths; Increase Security Now! - by Legal Pub

Insanity has hit Colorado twice and now it is time to beef up security in all places where people gather. In Arvada, an unidentified man used a handgun to shoot four staff members at a youth missionary training center near Denver. Two were killed apparently because they told the gunman he could not spend the night at their facility. The missionary center is on the grounds of the Faith Bible Chapel. Their pastor is George Morrison. Youth With a Mission was started in 1960 and has 1,100 locations with 16,000 full-time staff. The Arvada center was founded in 1984.

12 hours later and 65 miles away in Colorado Springs, a gunman used some type of a rifle to shoot a parishioner and wound four other people at New Life Church before a volunteer security guard killed him. New Life Church is the mega church founded by Rev. Ted Haggard who was forced to leave the church last year after it was revealed that he had a three year sexual relationship with a male prostitute.

Staff members of the youth center, Tiffany Johnson and Philip Crouse were killed at the center. Dan Griebenow (24) and Charlie Branch (22) were wounded. Tiffany Johnson, 26, was the center's director of hospitality. Crouse was 24 and lived in Alaska.

One of the hospitalized victims from the second attack died Sunday at about 10:10 p.m., said Amy Sufak, a spokeswoman for Penrose Community Hospital in Colorado Springs.

The two shootings may be related. No one had been captured in the Arvada shootings. Authorities were searching a home in suburban Englewood that they said could be related to the Colorado Springs shooting case. "Colorado Springs has identified its suspect, and we're there to see whether their suspect and ours are the same," said Arvada Deputy Police Chief Gary Creagor.

Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers was investigating the relationship if any between the two shootings. "There was a courageous staff member who probably saved many lives here today," Myers said. Gov. Bill Ritter ordered prompt investigation. Of unknown significance is that Officers found several smoke-generating devices on the New Life church campus according to Chief Myers. No one has revealed who put the devices there or their intended purpose. New Life is one of Colorado's largest churches with over 10,000 members.

The connection between the two facilities? The mission training program in Arvada does have a small office on the Colorado Springs church campus of New Life.
About 7,000 people were on the Colorado Springs campus at the time of the shooting according to Senior Pastor Brady Boyd.

Witnesses told police that the gunman was a 20-year-old white male, wearing a dark jacket and skull cap, who had a handgun and left on foot. He may have glasses or a beard. Arvada police said a dark-jacketed man with a beard, glasses and skullcap entered Youth With a Mission. A black-clad gunman with a high powered rifle was described as the shooter at New Life Church. Wittinesses' accounts of a black-clad gunman are similar to the description issued by Arvada police.

The insanity must be stopped. Now is the time to exercise our constitutional rights to bear arms. Armed private security guards are needed at places where people gather in order to minimize such tragedies. At New Life, the gunman was killed relatively quickly. By improving response time by employing armed guards, the shooters wish to commit suicide can be granted more swiftly, potentially saving the lives of many victims. Legal Pub suggested the same solution back at the time of the Virginia Tech shootings. Now it is time to strike back at crime.
Update: Rachel Works (16 ) and Stephanie Works (18 ) are identified as victims at the New Life shooting. A female security guard killed the shooter.


Ralph said...

I agree, Legal Pub. It is time to shoot back! Quit glorifying the criminals and put em in the ground.


dollar bill said...

Maybe its God punishing the hypocracy of these Mega Multi Million Dollar Religious organizations sucking the wallets dry of naive members?

Dollar Bill

Anonymous said...

Bad news!

Legal Pub said...

Update: Rachel Works (16 ) and Stephanie Works (18 ) are identified as victims at the New Life shooting. A female security guard killed the shooter.

blond bombshell said...

Goes to show you that women can rise to the challenge in any situation. As bad as this situation was, you go girl. More strong women like you are needed to get this world back under control.


Anonymous said...

Start the campaign: "Fire Back!"


brenda said...

Lets hire a bunch of women with guns at Malls and sporting events. Male killers won't have a chance...


Anonymous said...

I don't believe there is any cause to wonder yet if this might be the start of the Islamic Holy War on U.S. soil. Even if this was not terrorism it is the blue print for an all out attack. We also have home grown terrorism from the emotionally and mentally challenged as well as political groups.

A Christian Church may have been chosen by this gunman for terrorism reasons or simply because of the number of potential victims who would be present. It's supposed to be terrorizing. We can't always predict where or why. That is what makes it scary.


Legal Pub said...

Could this be that start of the Islamic Holy War on US Soil? Yes. Is it? No one knows why this 20 year old shot up these people, yet. It will be investigated.

All Americans (not just Christians)should be on aware of their surroundings. These types of assaults remain rare, but they could happen any where. Be smart, be safe, but do not stop living the American dream which is one of freedom.

Ms. Calabaza said...

Dollar Bill,
If God started punishing hypocrisy there would be a heck of a lot of dead people . . . sorry, don't think God works that way.

I agree with Legal Pub, we need to fight back. So proud that a woman was the security guard that fought back. I'm with you Shell, "you go girl".

Anonymous said...

God is striking his wrath upon hypocrite's everywhere.

The founder of this church was a pervert!


Anonymous said...

God is striking his wrath upon hypocrite's everywhere.

The founder of this church was a pervert!


bertha said...

Larry, you are wrong. This is God's kick start to the new feminist movement. Let women predominate the police force and military and we will get back on track in this country.


Anonymous said...

These suicidal people who want to gain fame by terrorism need to be shot down in their tracks. Additional security armed with swat training will reduce the number of victims and eliminate the glory of these attacks.


Anonymous said...

Sick and sad. Another case of “one sick SOB” being stopped by a courageous person willing to risk their life to save others.

Yeah, it’s nice it was a woman security guard but I don’t find that surprising at all. If it’s in you to fight evil, it’s in you. Doesn’t really matter what reproductive organ God has put between your legs!

I know lots of females that, although they might not last long in a bar fight, have more “fight” in them than many men. Put a gun in their hand and they’re “game on”! God made all men, Samuel Colt made them equal!

I know it’s not PC to advocate fighting back, but sometimes it’s just fool-on-stupid not to. These crazies go where the sheepeople are unarmed and awaiting slaughter. I have not seen many of them show up at an IPSC match! (You can Youtube IPSC if you’re curious).

My wife never goes anywhere (well, excepting the few places in Florida where you can’t carry) without her “best in feminine protection”, her Glock. I never go anywhere without the “best combat handgun ever built”, my Glock.

Additional security starts with every person. When the feces hits the high velocity air circulator, the only person who’ll save you is you. Anybody who is coming is many minutes out (a lot can happen in many minutes!) and they’re coming to help somebody else. All they’re going to do is write a report about what happened to you and try to hold somebody accountable. Bet on it!

And there is little to no deterrent effect towards a suicidal person about being held to account. Does not work.

I’ll try to get there. I will. And if he’s still standing when I do, I’ll eat his sorry ass for lunch.

But, at the end of the day, it’s you who has to help you.


colleency said...

So the 16 and 18 year olds who were murdered were struck down because God thought they were hypocrites? Or were they the naive members who were sucked dry by the hypocrites, and God struck them down for being naive? (talk about a double whammy.)

If that's the way God works, I'd prefer to spend Eternity elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

This is just a guess, as I’m not a physiologist, but it seems he may have been mad at the church and its members because they would not give him a handout. You know, free food, room and board, a big screen TV, the things he was due/wanted because he was him.

Another WAG (wild ass guess), is there actually a pattern of these suicidal/destructive kids lives? To wit: absent parents with more important things to do than raise their kids?

If there is, is this a real American social problem?

Let/tell dads that it’s not important that they take care of their kids. You know…loving their mothers, actually being around, taking responsibility. And not just by sending child support but by being permanently there. Hugging the kid, playing ball, going fishing and hunting, fairly disciplining the kid…you know, being an interactive participatory, responsible family member and patent. Naw. That takes work. I’ll just dump a load and walk away! Good luck kid.

Let/tell mom she does not need a dad. Hell, he’s just my baby’s daddy! Let others raise your kid; teach him how to love, to care, to understand, to walk away when he should and fight when he must. Let others give him language, values, and social skills. Tell moms that looking for a good man, waiting for a good dad, and secure marriage is just not the way to go. Let them know that all they need is child support, somebody else to raise their kids (you know anybody…day care, school, ol’ street buddy) and they can devote their time and energies elsewhere than their families. Heck, you go girl…you got no family. No man, no kid you have to sacrifice for…just feed it once in a while and give it someplace to sleep and it’ll grow fine! I’ll just squeeze a kid out and walk away. Good luck kid!

I’m seeing patterns in the people I’m arresting. Is anybody out there researching these to determine their validity?

Probably not.

It would not be PC to tell people that having kids is the most intense responsibility one can undertake. If you’re not ready by education, experience, accompanied by a good partner, within the confines of marriage, with adequate and predictable resources (time being the one I’m noticing missing most as in many relationships both parents want to work)…don’t do it!

But this does not fit this pattern!? A home schooled kid?

Just a theory.


Anonymous said...

Let's protect our malls and our schools and our churches. If this takes hiring a few extra armed guards, so be it!

colleency said...

I agree with LS. I see rampant examples of 'attachment disorder' in kids, and many adults.

It's totally un-PC to say that babies, toddlers, kids need a consistant and compassionate caregiver. They need to know that they are at the center of their parents' universe.

And I just don't see a lot of that around.

'Quality time' is a nice theory, but childrearing requires quantity - vast quantities - of time.

I work with new parents. And every day I see moms who are going back to work at 8-12 weeks postpartum. I see how they struggle to justify it to themselves - so that it makes sense logically, financially, etc - but I also see that their hearts are just breaking.

It's a very tough choice. I don't think the baby's / child's voice is able to be heard above the roar of Economic Reality.

And that's tragic, for everyone.

Anonymous said...

Day care has become a necessary evil of our society. One can only hope that the day care does a decent job and is staffed with good people.

My child attends day care. Fortunately mom is a teacher. So He gets summers and all school vacations away from day care. Not the best choice, but it works for us.

ralph said...

A woman's first priority should be to stay home and raise the children. A man's first priority should be the same. Who ever makes the best parent should stay with the youngens and the weaker parent go to work.