Grave concern over the safety of Lauren Spierer has overcome the Indiana University Campus in Bloomington since the twenty year old disappeared early Friday morning. Two searches have taken place, so far all of no avail. (Head basketball coach Tom Crean participated in one of the searches as did numerous other members of the faculty.) Police are seeking any information about Lauren's whereabouts.
This 20 year-old blond woman is a 2009 graduate of Edgemont High School in Scarsdale, N.Y. She is currently a junior at Indiana University studying fashion merchandising. She was taking a summer class in Bloomington at Ivy Tech. She was last seen leaving Kilroy Sports bar on Friday early in the morning, wearing black pants, a white shirt and no shoes. According to the Indiana Daily-Student, Spierer lived only a block and a half away from Kilroy's. Her known locations that early morning were all within a three block radius of her Smallwood apartment. Video from the apartment complex is consistent with Lauren never reaching her apartment. Indiana Daily-Student
Lauren is described as a 90 lbs, 4 feet, 11 inches tall blond with blue eyes. She was last wearing a white tank top with a light-colored shirt over it and black pants. foxnews.com Any tips should be forwarded to the Bloomington Police Department, (812) 339-4477.
Update 6-8-11: Still not much more information on Lauren. However, in Arizona a somewhat similar abduction may have taken place. Kristian Faith Ward, an 18-year-old model and mother has been missing since late last month. Ward (aka Kristian Faith Stout), was last seen walking away from the Paradise Valley Mall in Phoenix on May 27. Phoenix Police Department. Ward apparently picked up her check at the mall and then subsequently disappeared without a trace. (The search for Kristian Faith Ward from Phoenix, Ariz., ended with the young woman's safe recovery, according to her father. Her father said,"This is a matter of family privacy and we thank you for all of your concern and prayers." Let's all pray that the search for Lauren Spierer ends in a similar result.)
Update 6-9-11: In today's age of video surveillance, the chances of getting to the truth have increased several fold. Corey Rossman, an IU student, had been with Lauren Spierer a few hours before her disappearance. Corey was apparently punched by another man or men near Lauren's apartment. "At Smallwood, someone confronted them... He got punched in the face. He has no memory of that, or of the 15 minutes leading to that moment...” said Corey's attorney, Carl Salzmann.
Rossman has cooperated. He and Lauren were seen on videotape returning to her residence around 2:30 a.m. They then left the building about 10 minutes later. Lauren was helping Rossman go home because Rossman had been punched. The couple went to Rossman's building complex. Lauren apparently visited another apartment at the complex. There may have been another “confrontation” that morning at Rossman’s building; however, this officially remains speculation.
Lauren is described as a 90 lbs, 4 feet, 11 inches tall blond with blue eyes. She was last wearing a white tank top with a light-colored shirt over it and black pants. foxnews.com Any tips should be forwarded to the Bloomington Police Department, (812) 339-4477.
Update 6-8-11: Still not much more information on Lauren. However, in Arizona a somewhat similar abduction may have taken place. Kristian Faith Ward, an 18-year-old model and mother has been missing since late last month. Ward (aka Kristian Faith Stout), was last seen walking away from the Paradise Valley Mall in Phoenix on May 27. Phoenix Police Department. Ward apparently picked up her check at the mall and then subsequently disappeared without a trace. (The search for Kristian Faith Ward from Phoenix, Ariz., ended with the young woman's safe recovery, according to her father. Her father said,"This is a matter of family privacy and we thank you for all of your concern and prayers." Let's all pray that the search for Lauren Spierer ends in a similar result.)
Update 6-9-11: In today's age of video surveillance, the chances of getting to the truth have increased several fold. Corey Rossman, an IU student, had been with Lauren Spierer a few hours before her disappearance. Corey was apparently punched by another man or men near Lauren's apartment. "At Smallwood, someone confronted them... He got punched in the face. He has no memory of that, or of the 15 minutes leading to that moment...” said Corey's attorney, Carl Salzmann.
Rossman has cooperated. He and Lauren were seen on videotape returning to her residence around 2:30 a.m. They then left the building about 10 minutes later. Lauren was helping Rossman go home because Rossman had been punched. The couple went to Rossman's building complex. Lauren apparently visited another apartment at the complex. There may have been another “confrontation” that morning at Rossman’s building; however, this officially remains speculation.
It is reported that Spierer was last seen rounding a corner on her way back to her apartment at about 4:15 to 4:30 a.m according to Jay Rosenbaum. (Cory Rossman was apparently not the last one to see Spierer that morning. Perhaps as many as three or four other people may have seen Lauren after Cory Rossman went to bed.) Video footage from security cameras back at Lauren’s apartment building (Smallwood) suggest that she may have argued with several men that morning. One can expect police will get to the bottom of this matter. Lauren's father is offering a $100,000 reward for information concerning his daughter.
Afternoon update: Crystal Grubb disappeared last September in Bloomington. Crystal's body was found after 13 days in a cornfield just outside of Bloomington. Her homicide remains unsolved; however, information has leaked out that her purse may have been found near one of the apartment buildings in question. If that is true, there may be link between the Crystal's murder and Lauren's disappearance. In the mean time, it has also been reported that Rossman's car, credit card and cell phone have been examined by the police for possible information. Police continue to say that Lauren was not herself involved in the altercation with the other men and that Rossman has cooperated. Spierer apparently met Cory Rossman recently at the Indianapolis 500 track.
Update 6-10-11: Here is more information about the altercation which occurred at the fifth floor lobby of Spierer's apartment. Cory Rossman apparently recently met Spierer at the Indy 500 track. He was not close with Lauren's circle of friends. Apparently, Rossman was punched in the face in the 5th floor elevator lobby by someone who may know Spierer's boyfriend. (The puncher is rumored to be Zach Oakes but his identity has not been officially released.) Spierer's boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, a 22 year old IU student from Port Washington, New York, was not present at the time of the altercation. (The person who hit Rossman may or may not be one of Wolff's friends. Wolff was reportedly at home watching basketball at the time of the altercation.) After the altercation at Smallwood Apartments, Rossman and Spierer then apparently walked to Rossman's apartment near 11th and Morton. Rossman was allegedly put to bed by his roommate (Mike Beth.) Beth was reportedly sober as he had been up late working on a term paper. Beth said that Spierer left his apartment and went to see another friend. (This is believed to be Jay Rosenbaum of West Bloomfield, MI.) Spierer reportedly left the North Townhomes apartments around 4:30 a.m. Keys and a purse were apparently found on the route between North Townhomes and Smallwood. According to today's police press conference, Parker said surveillance video from nearby businesses may show some cars in the area at the time she disappeared. Investigators are working to identify the vehicles.
Update Afternoon 6-10-11: Nothing specific on Spierer; however, Plainfield, Indiana police are seeking information on Morgan Johnson, 27, who may be in need of medical attention. Morgan Johnson, 27, was last seen on May 18th at the Value Place hotel on Gateway Drive in Plainfield. Johnson has not made any phone calls on his cell phone or made any financial transactions. He drives a white 1995 Pontiac Grand Am, license plate # JS1830. Anyone with information on Morgan Johnson's whereabouts should call the Plainfield Police Department at 317-839-2566. Ironic that Lauren's case generated so much publicity but Morgan's did not.
Update 6-12-11: The Spierer investigation continues. Bloomington attorney Ron Chapman represents Mike Beth, a roommate of Corey Rossman. Chapman says Beth was at home doing classwork the early morning when Spierer disappeared. He says Beth is cooperating "totally and completely" with police. Both Mike Beth and Cory Rossman have apparently given police DNA samples.
Update 6-13-11: While the T.V. show generated tips, still no Lauren. The family has set up a website: www.findlauren.com. In the meantime, can the police publicly confirm the identity of the man in the alley captured on surveillance? (Is it indeed Rossman getting walked back from the altercation by Spierer?) See the following quote: "Surveillance video also shows Lauren in an alley walking with an acquaintance on the morning she disappeared. The alley is the same place where her keys and coin purse were found by authorities." Confirm the name of the man and provide a description and photo of the vehicles seen on video. Let the public see if they know anything about the whereabouts of this man (and perhaps of the vehicles) during the 24 hours after Lauren disappeared.
Update Afternoon 6-10-11: Nothing specific on Spierer; however, Plainfield, Indiana police are seeking information on Morgan Johnson, 27, who may be in need of medical attention. Morgan Johnson, 27, was last seen on May 18th at the Value Place hotel on Gateway Drive in Plainfield. Johnson has not made any phone calls on his cell phone or made any financial transactions. He drives a white 1995 Pontiac Grand Am, license plate # JS1830. Anyone with information on Morgan Johnson's whereabouts should call the Plainfield Police Department at 317-839-2566. Ironic that Lauren's case generated so much publicity but Morgan's did not.
Update 6-12-11: The Spierer investigation continues. Bloomington attorney Ron Chapman represents Mike Beth, a roommate of Corey Rossman. Chapman says Beth was at home doing classwork the early morning when Spierer disappeared. He says Beth is cooperating "totally and completely" with police. Both Mike Beth and Cory Rossman have apparently given police DNA samples.
Update 6-13-11: While the T.V. show generated tips, still no Lauren. The family has set up a website: www.findlauren.com. In the meantime, can the police publicly confirm the identity of the man in the alley captured on surveillance? (Is it indeed Rossman getting walked back from the altercation by Spierer?) See the following quote: "Surveillance video also shows Lauren in an alley walking with an acquaintance on the morning she disappeared. The alley is the same place where her keys and coin purse were found by authorities." Confirm the name of the man and provide a description and photo of the vehicles seen on video. Let the public see if they know anything about the whereabouts of this man (and perhaps of the vehicles) during the 24 hours after Lauren disappeared.
Here is what Legal Pub thinks may be an APPROPRIATE TIMELINE:12:16 a.m. While still at Smallwood, Lauren last uses her cell phone.
12:30 a.m. Hadar Tamir, Spierer's roommate at Smallwood, was hanging out with Lauren until then. Lauren then apparently went with David Rohn, to Jay Rosenbaum's apartment at North Townhomes. Rossman apparently joined Spierer at Rosenbaum's apartment. Next, Rossman apparently went with Spierer to Kilroy's Sports Bar.2:25, Lauren and Rossman leave the bar but Lauren leaves behind her shoes and cell phone. Spierer and Corey Rossman (who lives at 5 North Townhomes) walked to Lauren's apartment complex arriving around 2:30 a.m.
Around 2:30 a.m., Jesse Wolff, Speirer's boyfriend says that he went to sleep in his apartment after watching basketball and not being able to reach Lauren Spierer by phone.
At 2:45 a.m., Rossman apparently exchanges words and perhaps a punch with some possible aquaintences of Jesse Wolff (Spierer's boyfriend.) The puncher is rumored to be Zach Oakes but that has not been confirmed. The confrontation takes place in the 5th floor elevator lobby of Spierer's apartment building. (Rossman apparently has no memory of the fight or the walk back to his apartment.)
Around 2:55, Spierer begins walking Cory Rossman home. (Just before 3:00 a.m. is apparently the last video confirmation of Lauren by the alley. It was also reported that this was near the area where a key was found. (Note Ajay A. may have been the one to find a single key around 3:00 a.m. Note, there are later reports that Spierer's keys were found on a railing near Rosenbaum's apartment at 5 North Townhomes. A poster here says that a wrist-let that carried her key, key card, and ID was seen by A.A., a friend, that morning around 3 a.m. Later that morning, 2 females (one interviewed in MSM), apparently picked up the key and one of them turned it in to law enforcement.)
Around 3:10, the couple should have arrived at Cory Rossman's apartment. Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, claims he put Rossman to bed. Beth says he was sober and up late working on a paper. Spierer allegedly wanted to keep on partying so she apparently left Rossman's apartment to visit Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum lived two doors down.
At 3:38 a bar manager allegedly sees a woman who looks like Spierer with what appears to be a darker skinned man in the alley. (Source TonyGatto.com.) Police discount the witnesses testimony based on a lack of video confirmation. ( The bar manager witness who apparently came forward and told the police that she saw an intoxicated Spierer at 3:38 a.m. at 10th and College with an unidentified man was also discredited by Bloomington police apparently because of a lack of video confirmation.)
At 4:15 a.m. there is a phone call from Rosenbaum's cell phone to David Rohn's phone which apparently goes unanswered. Rosenbaum says that it was Lauren calling David Rohn to see if he knew where her phone was located. Rosenbaum reportedly told police Spierer left the apartment complex at approximately 4:30 a.m. to walk home. (It is possible that she may have left Rosenbaum's as early as 4:16.) Rosenbaum claims that he last saw her near 11th Street and College Avenue but there is apparently no video proof of her presence.
Around 2:55, Spierer begins walking Cory Rossman home. (Just before 3:00 a.m. is apparently the last video confirmation of Lauren by the alley. It was also reported that this was near the area where a key was found. (Note Ajay A. may have been the one to find a single key around 3:00 a.m. Note, there are later reports that Spierer's keys were found on a railing near Rosenbaum's apartment at 5 North Townhomes. A poster here says that a wrist-let that carried her key, key card, and ID was seen by A.A., a friend, that morning around 3 a.m. Later that morning, 2 females (one interviewed in MSM), apparently picked up the key and one of them turned it in to law enforcement.)
Around 3:10, the couple should have arrived at Cory Rossman's apartment. Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, claims he put Rossman to bed. Beth says he was sober and up late working on a paper. Spierer allegedly wanted to keep on partying so she apparently left Rossman's apartment to visit Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum lived two doors down.
At 3:38 a bar manager allegedly sees a woman who looks like Spierer with what appears to be a darker skinned man in the alley. (Source TonyGatto.com.) Police discount the witnesses testimony based on a lack of video confirmation. ( The bar manager witness who apparently came forward and told the police that she saw an intoxicated Spierer at 3:38 a.m. at 10th and College with an unidentified man was also discredited by Bloomington police apparently because of a lack of video confirmation.)
At 4:15 a.m. there is a phone call from Rosenbaum's cell phone to David Rohn's phone which apparently goes unanswered. Rosenbaum says that it was Lauren calling David Rohn to see if he knew where her phone was located. Rosenbaum reportedly told police Spierer left the apartment complex at approximately 4:30 a.m. to walk home. (It is possible that she may have left Rosenbaum's as early as 4:16.) Rosenbaum claims that he last saw her near 11th Street and College Avenue but there is apparently no video proof of her presence.
At 4:24 a.m., what appears to be a white four door Sierra circles the block. Police say they checked out the owner of the vehicle. (The 4:24 sighting of what was described as a white Silverado or Colorado truck captured on video has been declared not related by Bloomington police.)
(NOTE: while police say that "a neighbor of Rossman" say that Spierer was last seen around 4:30 a.m., police apparently have no video confirmation of Lauren at that time. It is assumed that "the neighbor" who gave this statement is Jay Rosenbaum.)
4:30 a.m. There is an unconfirmed report that a homeless man heard a scream.7:30: Later Friday Morning: Allegedly the trash dumpsters were emptied on Friday before 8:00 a.m.
7:45 Jesse Wolff apparently gets up and takes a roommate to his 8:00 a.m. class.
Later that morning: Wolff apparently texts Lauren without any answer. Killroys apparently texts back to "tell your friend her phone is here." Wolff contacts Hadar Tamir to get Lauren's keys to see if Lauren is still in her apartment. Wolfe enters the apartment in the afternoon. Wolff apparently calls Lauren's parents to say she is missing. Sara and Amanda Roude fill out some type of missing person's report with the Bloomington police. (It appears that Lauren was reported missing within 12 hours of her last alleged sighting.) Unconfirmed reports also describe a possible confrontation between Wolff and Jay Rosenbaum on that Friday.
7:45 Jesse Wolff apparently gets up and takes a roommate to his 8:00 a.m. class.
Later that morning: Wolff apparently texts Lauren without any answer. Killroys apparently texts back to "tell your friend her phone is here." Wolff contacts Hadar Tamir to get Lauren's keys to see if Lauren is still in her apartment. Wolfe enters the apartment in the afternoon. Wolff apparently calls Lauren's parents to say she is missing. Sara and Amanda Roude fill out some type of missing person's report with the Bloomington police. (It appears that Lauren was reported missing within 12 hours of her last alleged sighting.) Unconfirmed reports also describe a possible confrontation between Wolff and Jay Rosenbaum on that Friday.
Representation: Persons of interest have legal representation and thus direct access to them is not possible. Rosenbaum is represented by attorney James Voyles. Wolff is being represented by Joe Lozano. Wolff met Spierer in summer camp as a child. They have been dating for a couple of years. Wolff, is reported to have spent the evening watching basketball and unsuccessfully attempting to reach Spierer by text. Wolff allegedly went to bed in his residence at 2:30 p.m. Wolff did track down Spierer's roommate (Hadar Tamir) the next day. She gave him keys to the apartment where he confirmed Lauren was missing. Wolff apparently called Lauren's parents to tell them he could not find Lauren. Wolff is believed to be back in his home town of Port Washington, New York. Jay Rosenbaum is believed to be back at home in West Bloomfield, Michigan. Cory Rossman and Mike Beth apparently remain in Bloomington going about their normal lives.
All person's of interest are to be presumed innocent!
Update 6-14-11: Rumors persist that Lauren Spierer may have overdosed on cocaine and alcohol. If Lauren (who had a heart condition) really did die of an overdose (and those with her panicked and disposed of her body) then those folks should come forward to authorities with the truth. Mike Beth's attorney denies that there is any truth to the rumor of some type of coverup. KEEP IN MIND AT THIS POINT, RUMORS ARE MERELY RUMORS AND NOT FACT.
From the video, a more accurate description of Lauren's clothing is as follows: "A V-neck white shirt that may have had a "distressed" look, with elbow-length butterfly sleeves and a scooped bottom. She also wore black leggings with silver zippers at the ankles." With regard to the timeline, video from an alley between Smallwood and Rossman's apartment showed them walking toward his building around 3 a.m. Keys were later found in that alley. A neighbor of Rossman reported seeing Spierer leave around 4:30 a.m., but police have no video confirmation of Spierer after the 3 a.m.
Update 6-15-11: Equisearch was in town adding firepower to the search for Lauren Spierer. Legal Pub also had a presence in Bloomington. There is a construction project underway that seemed like a logical place to search. Many dumpsters in the area are regularly emptied and the contents taken to a land fill in another city. Presumably the police have alerted the landfill in question. The bottom line is that if Lauren got into a motor vehicle, then the search area is vast. For example, Bloomington and the surrounding rural areas have many wooded areas and bodies of water. The further one travels away from Bloomington, the more rural the area. While rumors of an accidental death persist, there is little evidence to substantiate many of the claims. Foul play is not always the culprit. One can't help but recall the missing Purdue student, Wade Steffey, who was later found dead after he stumbled into a high voltage area. Key questions to a few persons of interest and locating the drivers of one or two vehicles in the area could possibly lead to locating Lauren Spierer. Unfortunately, a prompt resolution is not in sight.
Legal Pub would welcome the opportunity to get input directly from Hadar Tamir. She can reach us at legalpub@legalpub.net. Of interest is Hadar's statement that Lauren Spierer used Rosenbaum's phone to call David Rhon at 4:15 a.m. that morning to see if he knew the whereabouts of her cell phone. Rhon has apparently cooperated with police.
Finally photos of the white pickup truck and of Lauren at the apartment have been released. See top of page. We still need photos of the last confirmed sighting and a public confirmation who was with her in the photos. Knowing all of the people who were at Rosenbaum's that early morning would also be helpful.
Update 6-16-11: Apparently the purse found belonged to a former homicide victim Angela Holder not Crystal Grubb. Holder was a 39 year old resident who worked at the Scottish Inn. She apparently argued with her boyfriend and was found stabbed to death in her residence on June 7, 2011. Bruce Edward Foster has been arrested on charges of murder arising out of what is believed to be a crime of passion.
LINK Another photo of the truck is posted above. There is another surveillance photo of Lauren that police have not released. Police won't say if there is anyone else in the photo!
Update 6-17-11: A search warrant was apparently obtained in the Spierer case to search the Republic Sycamore Ridge Landfill in Pimento Indiana. Police have not yet acted on the warant. In the mean time, police are following up on leads concerning the white Colorado or Silverado truck in the photos. Apparently the truck circled the block and when it left, it failed to stop for a stop sign. Some one, some where, knows about an acquaintance who was driving a white truck in Bloomington, Indiana in the early morning hours of June 3, 2011! In an unrelated case, Carley Jean Lewis, the missing 16 year-old girl from Michigan was found dead. An acquaintance of Carley, Robert Jensen Schwander, is charged with "Open Murder."
Afternoon 6-17-11: The end game would seem near with the reported sighting at 3:38 at 10th and College. According to an unidentified witness believed to be a bar manager, a drunk Spierer was apparently seen with a man who at one point put Lauren over his shoulder. According to the witness, the darker skinned man does not look like any of the person's of interest. The witness allegedly told TonyGatto.com that Lauren appeared very intoxicated. Lauren may have even hit her head in the encounter. (Why has this witness not come forward sooner? Is she credible? Why have the police not released the rest of the video? Why does her timeline (3:38 sighting) apparently conflict with Rosenbaum's statement? Police apparently believe that this bar manager's recollection of time is erroneous.) In perhaps a completely unrelated manner, there are reports of a bag of man and woman's clothes being found in a dumpster behind Lauren's apartment. The clothing supposedly has nothing to do with the Spierer case; however, authorities do not always tell the public everything. Police took no questions today at their police conference.
Afternoon 6-17-11: The end game would seem near with the reported sighting at 3:38 at 10th and College. According to an unidentified witness believed to be a bar manager, a drunk Spierer was apparently seen with a man who at one point put Lauren over his shoulder. According to the witness, the darker skinned man does not look like any of the person's of interest. The witness allegedly told TonyGatto.com that Lauren appeared very intoxicated. Lauren may have even hit her head in the encounter. (Why has this witness not come forward sooner? Is she credible? Why have the police not released the rest of the video? Why does her timeline (3:38 sighting) apparently conflict with Rosenbaum's statement? Police apparently believe that this bar manager's recollection of time is erroneous.) In perhaps a completely unrelated manner, there are reports of a bag of man and woman's clothes being found in a dumpster behind Lauren's apartment. The clothing supposedly has nothing to do with the Spierer case; however, authorities do not always tell the public everything. Police took no questions today at their police conference.
Update 6-20-11: Without tips, the search for Lauren must depend upon luck. The search has expanded to outlying areas. It is reasonable to believe that a bridge, wooded area and water area off of highway 37 was recently searched near Martinsville. Apparently nothing of significance was recovered. It is also reasonable to assume that the police have followed up on leads on what is believed to be a 2006 to 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500 with fancy wheels, black handles and a black protector over the bed rails. Officially, the search continues. It remains difficult to reconcile the bar manager's alleged 3:38 sighting of Lauren with a dark skinned man at 11th and college with Rosenbaum's story that he last saw her at 4:30 a.m.
Police visited the owner of the white truck and he has cooperated fully. Police conclude that he was not involved in the Spierer incident. He was picking up a worker in an area with lots of construction. Police are satisfied with the man's explanation. Law enforcement also indicates that the clothes found by the dumpster at Smallwood are not related to the case. Finally, the search near Martinsville did not turn up anything. Assuming the police information is accurate, given no video evidence of Spierer after 2:45, the focus most likely will shift back to what happened at Rosenbaum's apartment complex. Keep in mind, that David Rohn was quoted early on to the effect that he was with Lauren early in the evening at a friends (presumably Rosenbaum's apartment.) Then he went back to Smallwood and she presumably went to Sports. (Fox 59 video.) If David Rohn mentions the 4:15 call Rosenbaum says Lauren made on his phone to David Rohn, I can't find Rohn's comments in the press. An attorney has said that Rohn was asleep and the call went unanswered. David Rohn participated in the search on 6-5-11 and gave a voluntary statement to Fox 59. Police say that Rossman, Beth, Rosenbaum, Rohn and Wolff have cooperated. Just what was the 4:15 call all about and who said what?Update 6-21-11: Try not to be too critical of law enforcement. It is not just the Bloomington police department. The U.S. Marshall's office, the FBI and the Indiana State police are all involved to some extent. By way of clarification, the official explanation of the white truck is as follows: "The owner of the truck was driving in that location, an area with a lot of construction, to pick up a worker."The driver has been interrogated and law enforcement is confident that the pickup was not involved in the disappearance of Lauren Spierer. As for those calling for a further interrogation of certain person's of interest, there is no way at to make them speak further. Upon advice of counsel, they are unlikely to give any further statements. That does not in any way make them guilty. In fact, they are presumed innocent. Finally, the bar manager's story is a continued source of investigation. Keep in mind, it is a process that tries to rule theories out. Other surveillance footage in other parts of Bloomington may be helpful to track vehicle movement; however, there appears to be no video surveillance at 5 North Townhomes complex where Lauren Spierer apparently last visited before her disappearance.
Update 6-22-11: Police will hold a briefing today. While they may take few questions, here are what we believe are the "probable answers" to questions that our readers have been asking:
1. Comments are still posted, but to read them, you must got to the bottom of the comments and click on "newer posts."
2. You may assume that Bloomington police have access to Rosenbaum's and Rohn's phone records. This is possible through consent and through subpoena.
3. You may also assume that law enforcement knows whether or not the 4:15 a.m. caller left a message. If one was left, rest assured it has been reviewed.
4. There are no reports as to the degree of inebriation (if any) of Rosenbaum or Rohn. Assumptions that Rohn or Rosenbaum were "wasted" etc are rank speculation at this point.
5. Mike Beth and Rossman appear to have gone out of their way to cooperate. They remain in Bloomington. It was Beth who said Lauren left to go to Rosenbaum's and that turned out to be true.
6. Lauren's keys were reportedly found on a rail near Rosenbaum's apartment. The exact location has not been reported. Keep in mind, Rossman and Beth live two doors down from Rosenbaum. It is possible Lauren never possessed the keys at Rosenbaum's apartment or that she could have lost them in transition. We do know that Rosenbaum is the last person to report that he was with Lauren and that was shortly before 4:30.
7. Surveillance cameras, if motion activated, tend to detect larger objects. Depending on their settings, Lauren would not necessarily be considered a "larger object."
8. Law enforcement has much more information then what they are releasing to the public. The public has "no right to know." On the other hand, when information might help lead to a resolution, law enforcement releases the information.
9. Until they find Lauren, they do not have a cause of death. If her death was arrhythmia induced from consumption of illegal drugs, then suppliers of those drugs could faces charges UNLESS they cooperate with the State and enter into a deal. Keep in mind, no drug use is confirmed at this point.
10. Once a person of interest is identified as a true person of interest, they tend to remain watched even if they leave town. U.S. Marshall's and FBI are involved...
11. This is a process of elimination. Many theories have already been ruled out. Be a little patient. Retaining legal counsel is smart and not a sign of guilt. Find Lauren and the rest will follow...
Update 6-23-11: Yesterday's press conference revealed nothing that has not already been discussed. While Lauren's parents are disappointed in the number of tips and the less then 50 people who showed up for the most recent search, the overall suport for finding Lauren and the truth has been just short of remarkable. While this tragic event has forever changed the Speirer's life, life must go on. Unless Lauren's body wound up in a landfill, eventually she will be found. Perhaps, only then will some answers become apparent.
As for who was at Rosenbaum's apartment that early morning, one suspects that the official response is likely as follows: Early that morning, Lauren and David Rohn were apparently at Jay Rosenbaum's apartment. Cory Rossman joined them at Rosenbaum's. Rossman and Lauren then left to go to Sports. Lauren and Rossman went to Smallwood, where Rossman got punched. Rossmman and Lauren then apparently returned to Rossman's apartment where he was put to bed by Mike Beth. Lauren then went over to Rosenbaum's. I have seen no evidence that Beth was ever at Rosenbaum's apartment that early morning . (Another blog claims Beth was present prior to Lauren and Rossman visiting Sports. ) There is no official report of anyone else having been present at Rosenbaum's when Lauren was last present. However, it is certainly possible that someone else was present as suggested by Cory Rossman's attorney. Perhaps that person or persons identity has not been released.
Two lingering questions for Jesse Wolff's attorney may help clarify things: When does Jesse's roommates say that they last saw Jesse on June 3, 2011? Second, Did you read your client's Facebook postings?Update 6-30-11: The police search for DNA has intensified. On Wednesday, law enforcement and their K-9's sniffed inside the apartments located at Five North Complex at 11th and Morton. According to the Herald Times, Bloomington police also searched Jesse Wolff’s house in the 600 block of East Ninth Street. At the Five North apartments, they apparently searched Corey Rossman and Mike Beth's apartment. It is unknown whether they also entered Jay Rosenbaum's apartment.
Based on the released evidence, Rosenbaum was the last to admit seeing Lauren Spierer. (Another blog claims it was Mike Beth, which we believe is inaccurate.) Beth and Rossman have fully cooperated and remain in Bloomington. Jesse Wolff claims he had stayed home and was in bed. Jesse is now in New York and has not participated in the searches, either at the instruction of law enforcement or upon advice of counsel.
7. Mystery man in alley. Police have said LS last appears on video around 2:51 p.m. in the presence of a "known person." This could be CR or someone entirely different.
8. Mystery man described by bar manager at 3:38 a.m. This could be number 7 with an error in time or it could be someone completely different. Bar manager says someone looking like L.S. is drunk and thrown over the shoulder of the dark skinned, polo clad rather short individual. The bar managers testimony appears to be discounted by law enforcement at least as to the time it allegedly occurred.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/22/news.qp-4391232.sto
9. A.B. and B.B. This cast of characters would be roommates of ZO. They apparently live at 10th and college. What exactly were they doing that early morning? Their involvement or lack of involvement has not been verified nor publicly released.
10. A.A. Described off the record as an all around good guy. He apparently saw LS's key around 3:00 a.m.
11. Hadar Tamir. From Roslyn Heights New York. LS roommate. A.S. is another roommate. HT is one of only a few that have openly shared thoughts with the press. Says Wolff is a great boyfriend who would never hurt LS. Indicates that LS me CR at the Indy 500 track. Labelled as a very cooperative witness.
12. D.R. A 20 year-old from New York, New York. Studying recreational sports management. Lives at Smallwood. LS allegedly called his phone using JR's phone at 4:15 am. DR was allegedly in bed and did not answer. Participates in the first searches and is labeled as cooperative. Believed to be represented by attorney Ron Chapman.
13. Homeless man. Allegedly told law enforcement that he heard a scream at around 4:30 a.m. Reports concerning this man remain sketchy and unverified. Some say this character is completely fictitious.
14. Two girls. Allegedly two girls turned in LS's key and id.
15. Owner of a white truck. First police say there our a couple of vehicles in the area and they want to check out whether the owners know anything. Later photos of a white truck are released with the information that it was near the scene at 4:24 a.m. It apparently runs a stop sign and may have circled the block. Bloomington police then release a statement that the owner of the white truck has been identified and is not involved in the LS case. The identification of the driver of the truck remain private and are not released to public. No further mention is made of the other vehicles in the area.
16. Robert and Charlene Spierer. Grieving parents. Four months and still looking for their daughter. They just want closure, not a pound of flesh.
17. Law Enforcement. Police have refused to release the last known videos of LS for reasons completely unknown. At least one person has been very critical of the investigation. (See 7-9-11 update for link.) Even the Herald Times has quotes indicating that the landfills have yet to be searched. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.sto
9. A.B. and B.B. This cast of characters would be roommates of ZO. They apparently live at 10th and college. What exactly were they doing that early morning? Their involvement or lack of involvement has not been verified nor publicly released.
10. A.A. Described off the record as an all around good guy. He apparently saw LS's key around 3:00 a.m.
11. Hadar Tamir. From Roslyn Heights New York. LS roommate. A.S. is another roommate. HT is one of only a few that have openly shared thoughts with the press. Says Wolff is a great boyfriend who would never hurt LS. Indicates that LS me CR at the Indy 500 track. Labelled as a very cooperative witness.
12. D.R. A 20 year-old from New York, New York. Studying recreational sports management. Lives at Smallwood. LS allegedly called his phone using JR's phone at 4:15 am. DR was allegedly in bed and did not answer. Participates in the first searches and is labeled as cooperative. Believed to be represented by attorney Ron Chapman.
13. Homeless man. Allegedly told law enforcement that he heard a scream at around 4:30 a.m. Reports concerning this man remain sketchy and unverified. Some say this character is completely fictitious.
14. Two girls. Allegedly two girls turned in LS's key and id.
15. Owner of a white truck. First police say there our a couple of vehicles in the area and they want to check out whether the owners know anything. Later photos of a white truck are released with the information that it was near the scene at 4:24 a.m. It apparently runs a stop sign and may have circled the block. Bloomington police then release a statement that the owner of the white truck has been identified and is not involved in the LS case. The identification of the driver of the truck remain private and are not released to public. No further mention is made of the other vehicles in the area.
16. Robert and Charlene Spierer. Grieving parents. Four months and still looking for their daughter. They just want closure, not a pound of flesh.
17. Law Enforcement. Police have refused to release the last known videos of LS for reasons completely unknown. At least one person has been very critical of the investigation. (See 7-9-11 update for link.) Even the Herald Times has quotes indicating that the landfills have yet to be searched. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.sto
18. Garbageman. Dumpsters in the area are usually picked up by 8:00 a.m. The garbage is typically brought to a station and then trucked to the landfill south of Terre Haute. Not unusual for the garbage to be buried in the landfill before noon.
19. L.S. Call her the wild card. With no physical evidence of a crime, could she have had temporary amnesia and be alive and living some where? Very doubtful, but we know of rare cases like Lula Hood found after forty years.
19. L.S. Call her the wild card. With no physical evidence of a crime, could she have had temporary amnesia and be alive and living some where? Very doubtful, but we know of rare cases like Lula Hood found after forty years.
Update 6-25-11: Search was not successful despite a good turn out of volunteers. No more formal press conferences unless the police discover something of significance.Update 6-29-11: State police helicopters flew over the Bloomington area confirming what has already been reported, the area is vast with lots of wooded areas and bodies of water. Official searches have been called off. The McNutt search headquarters will close today. Future searches will be conducted only pursuant to reliable tips. Presumably law enforcement has checked local land fills... Prayer service tomorrow night in Bloomington. Last scheduled press conference at BPD will be Friday. Lauren's parents will read a statement.
Update 6-24-11: Plans for a massive search on Saturday! Send in the drones...
Keep in mind we do not live in a police state where subjects are forced to submit to unfair interrogation. Indiana will not tolerate strong armed confessions like what apparently happened during the 1987 homicide investigation involving Peggy Hettrick. Timothy Masters, who was actually convicted of the crime, has recently been exonerated after serving ten years of a life sentence. Masterson was saved by DNA evidence. Shortly after the crime, the 15 year-old Masterson was subjected to vigorous police interrogation which ultimately resulted in his conviction.
Update 6-27-11: The days of wanting to clear one's name in the press have apparently become a thing of the past for some. Neither Jason Rosenbaum nor Jesse Wolff apparently have anything to say to Mr. or Mrs Spierer about their daughter. Their attorneys remain tight lipped as well. The Spierers just want closure. Nevertheless, there are growing rumors that Rosenbaum had a guest at his home that early morning besides Lauren. Police have not officially released the guest's name. The problem with rumors is that it can spread inaccurate information and spoil an investigation. If they turn out true, they can be darn right embarrassing for law enforcement if they let such an individual slip away without so much as an interview. So until either the police or the person's of interest come forward with facts, there is not much to do but ignore the rumors and wait until Lauren is discovered.
Update 6-28-11: Attorney James Voyles is truly a master who knows that silence is not always golden. Credit has to be given to Rosenbaum's attorney for not remaining silent. Monday afternoon, Voyles told the press that Rosenbaum has cooperated fully. He claims that his client gave "a full statement" to authorities and also said that the results of a polygraph have been shared with the police. (Presumably Voyles had a private polygraph given to Rosenbaum.) Voyles statements spawn additional questions. Does this open the door for the police to provide a response to the press? May they now ask this cooperative witness additional questions? And last but not least, "Who was your house guest that early morning"? Hadar Tamir claims that Rosenbaum had a friend from his hometown staying with him that early morning. One wonders if this individual offered police the opportunity to interview him and search his vehicle?
Update July 1, 2011: Thursdays prayer service was filled with support and encouragement for Robert and Charlene Spierer. A minister prayed that whoever knows what happened to Lauren steps out of "the shadows of darkness."
The Spierers will read a statement of thanks and a promise that they will not rest until Lauren is found.
Update 7-2-11: Perhaps we were the first to point out the disparate treatment of Morgan Johnson's case in our 6-10-11 update. Now, Morgan's mom is doing something about it. Ann Smith filed a civil rights complaint against the Plainfield Police Department. She wants them taken off the case immediately and wants the state police to take over the investigation and that the case get the same attention as the Lauren Spierer case. "Based on other current and recent investigations on other missing persons in Indiana, there is a disparity in the action taken for them and not the same actions taken for Morgan," said Smith. Ironically, at least one newspaper, the Indianapolis Star, appears to be very critical of the Bloomington police for not doing more in the 4 weeks since Lauren's disappearance.
Update 7-4-11: Yesterday evening around 7:00 p.m. some one called in a sighting of a body in Fall Creek (Marion County.) The badly decomposed female body has yet to be identified. While it is possible that this might be related to the Spierer case, it is more likely to be a missing Indianapolis woman.
Update 7-5-11: The official word is that an autopsy of the body is scheduled for Tuesday. Police hope the forensic examination leads to the woman's identity. A press conference has been scheduled for after the autopsy. Unofficially, L.P. has been told that the hair on the decomposed body will not rule out Lauren. The teeth, however, do not appear to be Lauren's. Thus, the search is likely to continue. Noon Update: The tip to L.P. was correct. The coronor confirmed that the body found in Fall Creek was NOT Lauren Spierer. The coronor believes the very badly decomposed body is that of an African American woman.Update 7-7-11: The public's thirst for knowledge has generated wild speculation and rumor. It is extremely unlikely that Lauren Spierer ran off to Israel or anywhere else without her shoes and cell phone. (Heck now days young adults don't typically leave the house without the ability to text. See Legal Pub article on sexting. LINK.) Similarly, it is unlikely that professionals were "called in" to dispose of a body. More likely the remains will turn up someday in a field or body of water. If that does not happen, then the remains may have made it to a land fill. Law enforcement continues to investigate and follow up leads. When they are ready to come forward, they certainly will do so.
Update 7-8-11: Recent news may encourage the Spierer family not to give up hope. Lula Cora Hood, disappeared in 1970 after a family fight. Forty years later, this missing Illinois woman has now been discovered alive and well and living in Florida. Forty years later, police in Galesburg, Illinois say they've found her in Florida.
Update 7-9-11: One reader suggested that the Bloomington Police Department should check their own ranks for Persons of Interest. While Legal Pub does not share this opinion, it is linking a site that apparently thinks such a hypothesis is worth exploring. LINK. In the meantime, Saturday is an opportunity for a renewed search for Lauren. Past searchers are gathering at the track in an event called "Laps for Lauren." The Find Lauren site has details for those interested in participating in the event. Twitter Find Lauren posted: "Don't be sorry, just start being honest. It's not going to go away. The situation or the guilt. No one will know you called. 800-CRIMETV."
Update 7-11-11: The rest of the world goes on with its lives as illustrated by Seven Eleven giving out free Slurpees in honor of today's date. For the Speirers, the struggle is not over and they are not alone. "We will continue to be with the family every step of the way,” said Rabbi Sue Silberberg, director of IU’s Helene G. Simon Hillel Center. “We are determined and will not stop until we find Lauren.” Similarly, IU is continuing to provide some funding to defray the cost of future recovery efforts.
Update 7-12-11: An early preview of tomorrows post. If this were a play, the cast might include a list of interesting people as potential characters. Please note these are not "suspects" and they are not even necessarily "persons of interest"; however, as one poster pointed out, they are all interesting people.
1. Mike Beth.Beth told The Journal News on 6-10-11 that he did give a DNA sample, but that he was told by his lawyer not to discuss the case with reporters. “I just hope that they find her,” he said. “She was our friend.” http://www.lohud.com/article/20110610/NEWS02/106100365/Police-obtain-DNA-from-Lauren-Spierer-s-companion-his-roommate ~by Shawn Cohen and Jonathan Bandler. Apparently cooperative. Note attorney Chapman says that the lawyers for MB, CR and JR have all discussed the matter and Chapman claims none of these three are responsible for the LS disappearance. LINK.
2. Corey Rossman. He is one of the few legal drinkers as he is 21. In the Kelley School of Business studying real estate finance. Apparently met L.S. at the Indy 500. Some speculate that CR might have been a johnny come lately in LS's romantic life with the two of them sharing some mutual attraction. CR joined LS at Rossman's early in the evening. CR and L.S. then went to Killroy's and then later to Smallwood where CR is apparently on a "no trespass" list. At Smallwood CR was allegedly punched by Z.O. CR and L.S. then apparently returned to CR's apartment at 5 North Townhomes where M.B. puts CR to bed. CR has little or no memory after the alleged punch according to his attorney (Salzmann) CR has apparently been cooperative.
3. Jesse Wolff. Lauren's long time boyfriend from New York. JW lived at 9th and Fess, about six blocks away from JR's. He was reportedly at home watching basketball that evening and went to bed at 2:30 a.m. Later that morning he drove a roommate to 8:00 a.m. class and tracked down Lauren's phone at Killroys. He also got a key from Tamir Hadar and confirmed L.S. was not in her room. He also called L.S. parents. He is believed to be represented by attorney Joe Lozano. Initially cooperative. (On 7-22-11, JW's facebook claims he has spoken to police and passed a polograph.)
4. Jay Rosenbaum. From West Bloomfield, MI. Lives at 5 North Townhomes two doors down from CR and MB. Apparently his apartment was a gathering place sometime after midnight. Early in the evening he hosted guest including LS, DR and CR. He may have also had a house guest who for purposes of discussion only, we will give the frictional name of D.B. JR's story is apparently that CR and LS left for the bars. LS apparently came back around 3:00 a.m. She allegedly called DR on his phone at 4:15. At 4:30 he says he saw her leave his apartment, and round the corner at 11th and college. Initially cooperative. Represented by James Voyles who told the public that his client passed a polygraph, presumably a privately administered one.
5. House guest of JR. HT suggested that JR had a house guest that early morning. LINK. We have given this "house guest" the fictional identification of D.B. He might be a hometown guest visiting JR who could fill in some of the gaps missing from "play" as it currently might be written. Police have not released the name of the house guest or what if anything he knows about the early morning in question. So, what if anything does the mysterious house guest know about that morning?
Update 7-11-11: The rest of the world goes on with its lives as illustrated by Seven Eleven giving out free Slurpees in honor of today's date. For the Speirers, the struggle is not over and they are not alone. "We will continue to be with the family every step of the way,” said Rabbi Sue Silberberg, director of IU’s Helene G. Simon Hillel Center. “We are determined and will not stop until we find Lauren.” Similarly, IU is continuing to provide some funding to defray the cost of future recovery efforts.
Update 7-12-11: An early preview of tomorrows post. If this were a play, the cast might include a list of interesting people as potential characters. Please note these are not "suspects" and they are not even necessarily "persons of interest"; however, as one poster pointed out, they are all interesting people.
1. Mike Beth.Beth told The Journal News on 6-10-11 that he did give a DNA sample, but that he was told by his lawyer not to discuss the case with reporters. “I just hope that they find her,” he said. “She was our friend.” http://www.lohud.com/article/20110610/NEWS02/106100365/Police-obtain-DNA-from-Lauren-Spierer-s-companion-his-roommate ~by Shawn Cohen and Jonathan Bandler. Apparently cooperative. Note attorney Chapman says that the lawyers for MB, CR and JR have all discussed the matter and Chapman claims none of these three are responsible for the LS disappearance. LINK.
2. Corey Rossman. He is one of the few legal drinkers as he is 21. In the Kelley School of Business studying real estate finance. Apparently met L.S. at the Indy 500. Some speculate that CR might have been a johnny come lately in LS's romantic life with the two of them sharing some mutual attraction. CR joined LS at Rossman's early in the evening. CR and L.S. then went to Killroy's and then later to Smallwood where CR is apparently on a "no trespass" list. At Smallwood CR was allegedly punched by Z.O. CR and L.S. then apparently returned to CR's apartment at 5 North Townhomes where M.B. puts CR to bed. CR has little or no memory after the alleged punch according to his attorney (Salzmann) CR has apparently been cooperative.
3. Jesse Wolff. Lauren's long time boyfriend from New York. JW lived at 9th and Fess, about six blocks away from JR's. He was reportedly at home watching basketball that evening and went to bed at 2:30 a.m. Later that morning he drove a roommate to 8:00 a.m. class and tracked down Lauren's phone at Killroys. He also got a key from Tamir Hadar and confirmed L.S. was not in her room. He also called L.S. parents. He is believed to be represented by attorney Joe Lozano. Initially cooperative. (On 7-22-11, JW's facebook claims he has spoken to police and passed a polograph.)
4. Jay Rosenbaum. From West Bloomfield, MI. Lives at 5 North Townhomes two doors down from CR and MB. Apparently his apartment was a gathering place sometime after midnight. Early in the evening he hosted guest including LS, DR and CR. He may have also had a house guest who for purposes of discussion only, we will give the frictional name of D.B. JR's story is apparently that CR and LS left for the bars. LS apparently came back around 3:00 a.m. She allegedly called DR on his phone at 4:15. At 4:30 he says he saw her leave his apartment, and round the corner at 11th and college. Initially cooperative. Represented by James Voyles who told the public that his client passed a polygraph, presumably a privately administered one.
5. House guest of JR. HT suggested that JR had a house guest that early morning. LINK. We have given this "house guest" the fictional identification of D.B. He might be a hometown guest visiting JR who could fill in some of the gaps missing from "play" as it currently might be written. Police have not released the name of the house guest or what if anything he knows about the early morning in question. So, what if anything does the mysterious house guest know about that morning?
6. Z.O. The name assigned to a character who allegedly punched CR at Smallwood a little after 2:30 a.m. LS was apparently with CR at the time. The reason for the dispute is unknown although early media accounts would suggest that perhaps CR was being aggressive toward L.S. however, keep in mind LS voluntarily left with CR after the alleged altercation. (Note video of the alleged altercation have not been released to the public so the identity of the alleged puncher is not confirmed.)
20. Indiana University. IU hates the negative press. A warning has been issued to incoming freshman.
Keep in mind NONE of the above are suspects nor are they even necessarily "person's of interest." All are, however, interesting people some of whom may be able to help solve the mystery of "what happened to Lauren."Update 7-22-11: Assume this report of Lauren stumbling around Smallwood with CR is correct. LINK. Why is that such a surprise? Does someone who is not under the influence of some intoxicating substance leave shoes, cell phone and perhaps a coat elsewhere? Again assuming this is true, LS lacked capacity to knowingly consent to anything. (An intoxicated person lacks capacity to consume more alcohol, take drugs, or have sex.) Re-read Legal Pub 7-15-11 update. Now, do you really still wonder why some folks might not be too eager to volunteer information leading to her discovery? Find the body and the rest will follow...
Update 7-18-11: Harley Ride for Lauren is scheduled for 7-30-11. Here is our issue Nancy Grace: For weeks Legal Pub has suggested a search of the landfill. Officer Parker back on 6-10-11 said dumpsters and landfills were searched.
http://www.thedailygreenburgh.com/neighbors/spierer-case-appear-americas-most-wantedNow BPD is aparently admitting that land fills were never searched. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.stoThe Sycamore Ridge Landfill is the final destination for all Indiana University and Bloomingonton Indiana trash. Garbage is mixed with garbage from other destinations; however, the location of each day's dump can be located through GPS. Talk about a story on credibility. Why are you scared to get your hands dirty, CNN? (Finally 8-15-11 Nancy Graces Blog starts to get interested...)Update 7-20-11: Many responses have been offered concerning the land fill controversy. One supporter of the BPD pointed out that on 6-18 a massive search was conducted in Martinsville based on a tip. LINK. Furthermore, if there is any truth to the growing rumor that the 4:15 a.m. call may not have originated in Bloomington, then there may be rhyme to their reasoning. Police are not corroborating any rumor, but if the origin of the call was traced to a place other than Bloomington, then the failure to immediately search the Pimento landfill may be justified. Keep in mind that at this point it is only unsubstantiated rumor. Visit this Facebook to help keep attention on Lauren: LINK.
Update 7-21-11: Most missing people don't generate a great deal of media coverage. LINK. So what? This one did. So what is the media going to do to help find Lauren? One word of advice, try to be a leader and not a follower! Go interview the cell phone provider. Get a quote for exactly how much the search of the landfill will cost. Do it today!
Mrs. Spierer speaks: An open letter from Mrs. Spierer may be found here: LINK.
Update 8-16-11: The roar of the huge backhoes couldn't be ignored. The landfill search began early this morning under the direction of the FBI and Bloomington Police Department. As of noon they were still digging and we have been informed that the search may last up to two weeks. No one is allowed to get too close as the fumes are apparently toxic.
Update 8-17-11: Trash search video: LINK. Police chief was on the scene today. (See comments.) Lauren's parents to leave and go back to New York for a "family function." Speculation is rising... Now may be the time for any POI to make a deal...
Update 8-22-11: Police have completed one week of trash scrutiny. The 12 hour shifts should end within the next 7 days. So far, no report of any evidence found.
Update July 13, 2011: SO WHERE IS NANCY GRACE? She crusaded so hard against the tot mom, Casey Anthony. The Anthony story is now a dead horse. Stop beating it and the jury to death. Your show has a chance to demonstrate real investigatory journalism. Find Lauren Spierer! Nancy, accept the challenge and see if the truth can be uncovered irrespective of the money. The Speirer family needs closure and persons of interest need to be cleared of scrutiny. You know you need credibility (and ratings) after the Anthony debacle. The challenge: Show the world that NANCY GRACE has superior investigatory reporting skills and help BPD find Lauren.
Update July 14, 2011: Still no hint of Nancy Grace getting involved. Feel free to contact her using this LINK. For those frustrated with the pace of the investigation, keep in mind the following:
~ You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~Clarence Darrow.~ I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice. ~Abraham Lincoln.
~ It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.~William Blackstone.(Bet some of you thought Jimmy Voyles said all these things first. LOL.)
Update July 15, 2011: It has been said that silence breeds contempt. In this case, silence breeds speculation. One of the theories bantered about is that someone gave LS a "date rape drug." Such a drug is any chemical that can assist in the execution of a sex crime, typically a sedative or hypnotic which tends to induce amnesia. (This could include serving her alcohol past the point of intoxication.) "Drink spiking"is when an intoxicating substance is added to a drink for amusement or malicious intent (robbery, battery, sexual assault etc). The concept is not new. For centuries, alcohol has incapacitated individuals and lowered inhibitions.
In-gestation of such substances can be voluntary or involuntary. The most common substances are alcohol, benodiazepines (flunitrazepam, midazolam, temazepam or rohupnol) and GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyric acid). Alcohol remains the most common substance used in large part because of its availability and acceptability. Furthermore, most victims willing consume the alcohol. However, even if an intoxicated victim agrees to sex, it can still be considered "rape" due to the lack of ability to consent. A limited example would be having sex with someone who has passed out. Respiratory depression, coma and even death are real possibilities when someone ingests a date rape drug, especially if mixed with alcohol. In the case of LS we have no real evidence other than she was at a bar drinking alcohol and her movements on video which apparently depict her conduct. Despite the limited evidence, it appears to be a safe assumption that she was intoxicated. But to what extent?
Update July 14, 2011: Still no hint of Nancy Grace getting involved. Feel free to contact her using this LINK. For those frustrated with the pace of the investigation, keep in mind the following:
~ You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~Clarence Darrow.~ I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice. ~Abraham Lincoln.
~ It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.~William Blackstone.(Bet some of you thought Jimmy Voyles said all these things first. LOL.)
Update July 15, 2011: It has been said that silence breeds contempt. In this case, silence breeds speculation. One of the theories bantered about is that someone gave LS a "date rape drug." Such a drug is any chemical that can assist in the execution of a sex crime, typically a sedative or hypnotic which tends to induce amnesia. (This could include serving her alcohol past the point of intoxication.) "Drink spiking"is when an intoxicating substance is added to a drink for amusement or malicious intent (robbery, battery, sexual assault etc). The concept is not new. For centuries, alcohol has incapacitated individuals and lowered inhibitions.
In-gestation of such substances can be voluntary or involuntary. The most common substances are alcohol, benodiazepines (flunitrazepam, midazolam, temazepam or rohupnol) and GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyric acid). Alcohol remains the most common substance used in large part because of its availability and acceptability. Furthermore, most victims willing consume the alcohol. However, even if an intoxicated victim agrees to sex, it can still be considered "rape" due to the lack of ability to consent. A limited example would be having sex with someone who has passed out. Respiratory depression, coma and even death are real possibilities when someone ingests a date rape drug, especially if mixed with alcohol. In the case of LS we have no real evidence other than she was at a bar drinking alcohol and her movements on video which apparently depict her conduct. Despite the limited evidence, it appears to be a safe assumption that she was intoxicated. But to what extent?
Update 7-18-11: Harley Ride for Lauren is scheduled for 7-30-11. Here is our issue Nancy Grace: For weeks Legal Pub has suggested a search of the landfill. Officer Parker back on 6-10-11 said dumpsters and landfills were searched.
http://www.thedailygreenburgh.com/neighbors/spierer-case-appear-americas-most-wantedNow BPD is aparently admitting that land fills were never searched. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.stoThe Sycamore Ridge Landfill is the final destination for all Indiana University and Bloomingonton Indiana trash. Garbage is mixed with garbage from other destinations; however, the location of each day's dump can be located through GPS. Talk about a story on credibility. Why are you scared to get your hands dirty, CNN? (Finally 8-15-11 Nancy Graces Blog starts to get interested...)Update 7-20-11: Many responses have been offered concerning the land fill controversy. One supporter of the BPD pointed out that on 6-18 a massive search was conducted in Martinsville based on a tip. LINK. Furthermore, if there is any truth to the growing rumor that the 4:15 a.m. call may not have originated in Bloomington, then there may be rhyme to their reasoning. Police are not corroborating any rumor, but if the origin of the call was traced to a place other than Bloomington, then the failure to immediately search the Pimento landfill may be justified. Keep in mind that at this point it is only unsubstantiated rumor. Visit this Facebook to help keep attention on Lauren: LINK.
Update 7-21-11: Most missing people don't generate a great deal of media coverage. LINK. So what? This one did. So what is the media going to do to help find Lauren? One word of advice, try to be a leader and not a follower! Go interview the cell phone provider. Get a quote for exactly how much the search of the landfill will cost. Do it today!
Mrs. Spierer speaks: An open letter from Mrs. Spierer may be found here: LINK.
Jessie Wolff speaks: A reporter from Journal News has apparently decided to step out of the shadows of the followers and has tried to contact JW. Wolff finally responded today via Facebook, urging "Leave me alone please." Wolff added, "I spoke with the detectives Tuesday and have taken a polygraph. All my cards are out on the table ..." According to this article, when asked whether police administered the polygraph, and for the results, Wolff replied, "what the (expletive) do you think the results were? if i failed a polygraph everyone in the world would know ...." LINK.
Update 7-26-11: A break in the case or another distraction? Six blocks away from where Lauren Spierer disappeared, Meredith Ephlin, an IU student, reports that a man attempted to strangle her. The 34 year old woman was apparently walking to a convenience store near 17th and Woodburn when she was attacked. At the current time, law enforcement is downplaying any possible relationship to the Spierer disappearance. LINK.
Update 8-3-11: A search warrant has been executed to search the Republic Sycamore Ridge Landfill on East Cottom in Pimento (near Terre Haute, IN.) A section of the landfill has been roped off as the area where trash was dumped from Bloomington. The excavation and search of the site will be under the direct supervision of the FBI. LINK.
Update 8-12-11: So far, nothing more than persistant rumors. There are unconfirmed rumors that a security guard was in the vicinity of 11th and College around 4:30 a.m. If true, what the security guard saw or what he did not see, may be very helpful in confirming or refuting the story of JR. Another rumor that just won't die is that some people are hiding the identity of a person with major drug connections. Fact is, for now they are just unconfirmed rumors. Come fall, when the vegetation dies and crops are harvested, there will be fewer locations for the "rumors" to hide.
Update 7-26-11: A break in the case or another distraction? Six blocks away from where Lauren Spierer disappeared, Meredith Ephlin, an IU student, reports that a man attempted to strangle her. The 34 year old woman was apparently walking to a convenience store near 17th and Woodburn when she was attacked. At the current time, law enforcement is downplaying any possible relationship to the Spierer disappearance. LINK.
Update 8-3-11: A search warrant has been executed to search the Republic Sycamore Ridge Landfill on East Cottom in Pimento (near Terre Haute, IN.) A section of the landfill has been roped off as the area where trash was dumped from Bloomington. The excavation and search of the site will be under the direct supervision of the FBI. LINK.
Update 8-12-11: So far, nothing more than persistant rumors. There are unconfirmed rumors that a security guard was in the vicinity of 11th and College around 4:30 a.m. If true, what the security guard saw or what he did not see, may be very helpful in confirming or refuting the story of JR. Another rumor that just won't die is that some people are hiding the identity of a person with major drug connections. Fact is, for now they are just unconfirmed rumors. Come fall, when the vegetation dies and crops are harvested, there will be fewer locations for the "rumors" to hide.
Update 8-16-11: The roar of the huge backhoes couldn't be ignored. The landfill search began early this morning under the direction of the FBI and Bloomington Police Department. As of noon they were still digging and we have been informed that the search may last up to two weeks. No one is allowed to get too close as the fumes are apparently toxic.
Update 8-17-11: Trash search video: LINK. Police chief was on the scene today. (See comments.) Lauren's parents to leave and go back to New York for a "family function." Speculation is rising... Now may be the time for any POI to make a deal...
Update 8-22-11: Police have completed one week of trash scrutiny. The 12 hour shifts should end within the next 7 days. So far, no report of any evidence found.
Update 8-24-11: Video criticism of CR and other so called "friends" of Lauren Spierer. LINK
Update 8-27-11: The almighty roar of the equipment came to an end on Friday. The search is now officially over."The fact that no evidence related to this case was discovered is unfortunate, but we are confident that the proper area at the landfill was identified and thoroughly checked by the officers working there," said Chief Michael Diekhoff. Some two dozen police, FBI agents and an expert from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children searched the 8,400-square-foot area of the landfill.
Update 8-27-11: The almighty roar of the equipment came to an end on Friday. The search is now officially over."The fact that no evidence related to this case was discovered is unfortunate, but we are confident that the proper area at the landfill was identified and thoroughly checked by the officers working there," said Chief Michael Diekhoff. Some two dozen police, FBI agents and an expert from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children searched the 8,400-square-foot area of the landfill.
Update 8-29-11: School started at IU. Another search on Sunday was unsuccessful. Quotes of interest: "It was the worst news I could have gotten. It's just, there are no words to describe it, hearing that your best friend is missing...We're still finding her, and I'm still as determined as I was the minute I heard it that we're going to find her. I'm never going to give up," said IU student Blair Wallach.
Update 8-30-11: Jay Rosenbaum claims that he has talked to Lauren's parents privately. Video LINK. I wonder if Lauren's mom or dad would verify such a conversation?
Lauren Spierer's Mom tells FOX59 "I have not spoken with Jay Rosenbaum. I was surprised to hear his comment. Jay says he speaks to parents." LINK.
Update 9-5-11: Mrs. Spierer has sent an open letter to her daughter's abductor:
"If you think for a minute, her father and I are going to disappear, think again. We are just as determined today as we were day one," Charlene Spierer writes. "Do you think this is a game? This is no game. We are in this for the long haul ... we will NEVER give up."
Latest statments of Hadar Tamir:"When we had to move out and saw her room so empty, we just sat on the floor crying... It was completely surreal... We went home for the summer and came back, and nothing has changed, really." LINK
September 14, 2011: The body found in a wooded area of Jennings County in southern Indiana is not Lauren Spierer. Capt. Joe Qualters confirmed that the body found does not match Lauren's description.
September 19, 2011: Rob and Charlene Spierer, remain in Bloomington to prepare for a Sept. 22 concert and walk to bring attention to search and investigation efforts.
September 28, 2011: Can you say "You don't pull the mask off the old Long Ranger and you don't mess around with slim? Dietl & Associates, private investigators, are apparently not licensed in the state of Indiana according to the state Attorney General's Office. A firm representative appearance on a Fox morning show where he made fun of Bloomington Police Chief Michael Diekhoff. Now expect the private detectives to be barred from participating further in the Lauren Spierer case.
October 10, 2011: Legal Pub had a presence today in Bloomington. This is what we have learned about the body found in Bloomington, Illinois: Badly decomposed white female. NOT LOCAL. Coroner awaiting dental and DNA confirmation of identiy. Based on missing person's report she has an idea who it may be. (She is not giving any further information until DNA and dental records confirm her hunch.) While the body was found far from Bloomington, Indiana, anything is possible...
October 12, 2011: Still no official word on the identity of the remains found. Names like Kathy Christensen from North Chicago, who has been missing since April, Bonnie Woodward who has been missing since June, 2010, Stacy Peterson who has been missing forever and Lauren Spierer who has been missing since June have been tossed around. In the meantime there are reports out of Bloomington, Indiana that it does not appear to be Lauren. However, we will wait for the official DNA results.
October 13, 2011: McLean County Coroner Beth Kimmerling said that Jean L. Kelly of Minier was identified through dental records. Kelly had been missing since early September. Cause of death and toxicology are pending.October 24, 2011: Mrs. Spierer posted on a blog that she was hurt by an anonymous letter sent to her complaining that her search posters are "littering Bloomington."
November 3, 2011: Jay Rosenbaum, in the presence of own of his attorneys, has met with Mr. and Mrs. Spierer and their attorney on September 19, 2011. Rosenbaum also met with the Spierer family's investigator, Bo Dietl, on Sept. 21. Jay subsequently reported to the Journal News: "Yes, I have cooperated since day one, and I will continue to cooperate... And I had nothing to do with the disappearance of Lauren. Obviously, there's nothing more that I want than for Lauren to be found and safe, and for this all to be over." Attorney Lukemeyer said she "... felt compelled to defend her client now because he continues to face heavy scrutiny."
January 7, 2012: Bill Warner's blog questions whether the disappearance of six petite females, Crystal Hall, Paige Johnson, Holly Bobo, Lauren Spierer, Katelyn Markham and Karen Swift are all related... LINK.
January 20, 2012: Lauren's parents have enlisted the help of New York detectives. The Spierer's apparently feel comfortable eliminating some person's of interest. Those cooperating apparently include J.W., J.R., and M.B. Others may also be cooperating. LINK.
February 27, 2012: Lauren's family has increased the amount of reward money offered for information leading to her discovery $100,000 to $250,000. Family blog: blog site.
May 1, 2012: As the anniversary date of Lauren Spierer's disappearance approaches, the "deafening silence" makes it look more and more like a random abduction. After all, what college kids could keep their mouths shut this long if they were actually involved? One would suspect, not many. The tip lines are still open and the reward money is still available.
May 15, 2012: As "find Lauren" posters are being made for the upcoming anniversary of Lauren's disappearance, it sometimes appears that police are grasping at straws. Police are reportedly looking at William Clyde Gibson, a man who is suspected in the deaths of three women more than 100 miles away from the Bloomington according to the Journal News. (William Clyde Gibson is charged with the 2002 murder of 45-year-old Karen Hodella and the murder of 75-year-old Christine Whitis. He is also suspected of murder with regards to another woman found buried in his backyard.) At this time; however, there are no specific leads that indicate Gibson may have been involved in Lauren's disappearance.
May 29, 2012: Lauren Spierer's disappearance ha no connection to the disappearance of Mickey Shunick, the University of Louisina student that disappeared May 19, 2012. Capt. Joe Qualters told the press: “Any reports of a ‘connection’ have been manufactured by the media and was never put forth by us... I simply indicated to a media person that we’d made an ‘inquiry’— a seemingly appropriate thing to do — and that was turned into us contacting them because of ‘similarities’ which is inaccurate.. Nothing of significance to the Spierer investigation came from the discussion held with police investigators in Louisiana.”
August 13, 2012: A fisherman found a skull in Marion County. Speculation was that it could be Lauren. It was not her. It wasn't covered here because it was unwarranted speculation. If something credible happens, we will cover it.
August 20, 2012: Still nothing. The armed man who claimed he met Lauren Spierer at a shooting range was not arrested. He had been surveilling Killroys. No crime was committed. His name was not released. The 56-year-old man had two guns on him and a shotgun in the trunk. The man wasn’t believed to be involved in Lauren's disappearance.
December 10, 2012: As the holidays approach, the frustration of family increases with the current stalemate known as "The Lauren Spierer Investigation." Lauren's parents do not believe their daughter’s disappearance was a “random abduction.” They have publicly criticized Lauren's male friends who were the last to see her before she vanished. “We have these boys that were there that night that clammed up, shut down, lawyered up,” Robert Spierer, said on “Katie.” Lauren Spierer's parents continue to offer a $250,000 reward.
February 11, 2013: Despite months of searching, still no sign of Lauren Spierer. There have been no arrests and no suspects named. CBS New York, claims that police have received more than 2,400 tips in the case. Nevertheless, no end is in sight. Perhaps warm weather will lead to a well deserved resolution to this tragedy.
February 3, 2016: Has the trail become warm or is it still cold? It depends who you consult. The Bloomington Herald-Times documented a recent search warrant search on Doug Wager's property. His son Justin Wagers was thought to be the target of that search. Doug Wagers, told the newspaper that police spent four to six hours searching the family property in Trafalgar as well as the family residence. Doug Wagers said he told investigators to search, and search hard, because his son, Justin, is innocent.
“The system got a hold of him and the only thing he did wrong was indecent exposure," Doug Wagers explained. Mean while, Justin Wagers, who has a history of public indecency arrests, is currently being held in the Johnson County Jail on charges of public indecency and performing sexual conduct in the presence of a minor. This does not, of course, mean that he had anything to do with Lauren Spierer's disappearance. As always, Wagers is to be presumed innocent unless otherwise convicted in a court of law.
June 9, 2016: Brad Garrett and some private consultants working with Spierer's family are still trying to figure out what
happened to Lauren who disappeared from Bloomington, Indiana in 2011.March 15, 2019: Now approaching the eight year mark, the trail is still cold. Many theories, some inconsistent statements, but mostly rank speculation. DNA analysis would probably identify the killer, but without a body, there is little analysis to be done. Lauren's parents posted on FaceBook:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke-
Readers are reminded if you have information, please contact:
Bloomington Police Department 812.339.4477
Or email: helpfindlauren@gmail.com
Posts
717 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 717 Newer› Newest»Holder was killed June 8, 2011 apparently as a crime of passion by her boyfriend... but don't think for a minute that any suspects in Lauren's disappearance might not try to deflect blame to Foster. The finger always points every where but the real culprit.
This whole investigation seems to be going NOWHERE..
New column on Gatto seems to be saying there are alot of unanswered questions about Rosenbaum's involvement..
David Rohn lives in the same apartment complex as Spierer. According to attorney Ronald Chapman. “Somebody called Rohn’s number at 4:15 but Rohn was in bed. Hadar Tamir says it was Lauren that called on Rossman phone.
Rossman did tell the police that Spierer left his residence around 4:30 to walk back.
I read the Gatto piece also. I believe you mean Rosenbaum.
Hadar Tamir only says it's Lauren who made the call because Rosenbaum told her that.Why would Rosenbaum even bring that up with her and what time did he tell her that?
Yes it was Rosenbaums phone that apparently initiated the 4:15 call to rohn.
So it's Rosenbaum who said she made the call to Rohn about her phone? Why would rohn know where her phone was. maybe it was rosenbaum himself who was calling Rohn for some reason.
Something with the keys just doesn't add up.
If Rosenbaum is the culprit, why would he place those keys in close proximity to his apartment?
If it's someone anonymous, it seems almost too coincidental that the person would place the keys there.
But if it happens to be someone who saw her leave there (or knew she was leaving there), they could have planted evidence to draw the connection between Rosenbaum and Spierer.
Now she could have called Rohn to let her back into the apartment complex, but that's only if she didn't have the keys at the start of the walk home.
it would be super if we knew where Rosenbaum's cell phone was when the call was made.
A few clarifications: 1. They can subponea reoords of Rosenbaum" and Rohns phone and they can also ping the wereabouts of both phones at 4:15.
Second, the Bloomington police know if there was a message and if so whether Rhon let them listen to the message.
Third, know one here knows the state of inebriation (if any) of Rosenbaum.
Fourth, Mike Beth and Rossman have gone out of their way to cooperate. It is Beth who said Lauren went to Rossman's which turned out to be true.
Fifth, the keys were found on an apartment rail near Rosenbaum's apartment. Note, the exact location has not been revealed and keep in mind Beth and Rossman live very near Rosenbaum. Consequently, we don't necessarily know that Lauren ever brought her keys over to Rosenbaum.
6th, surveillance cameras, if motin activated, tend to detect larger objects. Fact: Lauren is not exactly a giant. Don't assume too much.
7th, law enforcement knows more than what they have let the public know.
8th, until they locate Lauren, they do not have a cause of death.
9, once person's of interest are identified, they tend to remain watched even if they leave town. U.S. marshalls and FBI are involved.
10. This is a process of elimination and many of the theories have been ruled out.
Just a little patience... find Lauren and the rest will follow.
A thought. If Rosenbaum left town, maybe Lauren was in the car also, albeit who knows in what condition. Rosenbaum's car, and the route to Michigan, may be the missing piece. Was his apmt and/or vehicle searched?
Wow! Thanks for answering all of these questions so clearly without making any accusations. The only question remaining is one I share with ANON. Did Law enforcement ever search Rosenbaum's car?
I don’t see any problems with the keys being where they were; this girl was leaving a trail of items throughout the night. The keys were found on a railing outside of Rossman’s and Rosenbaum’s Apt building. I can see her diggings through her purse for something and placing the keys on the railing, than just walking off and leaving them there as she did with her phone. As for the phone call to Rohn to ask about her phone, I can see this happening as well, as she may have been looking for it in Rosenbaum’s apt when she discovered it was missing, or maybe that is what she was looking for when she left her keys on the railing, than went to Rosenbaums apt to see if it was there. She very well might have been calling Rohn to see if she even took it with her that night since Rohn first walked with her to Rosenbaum’s apt at the beginning of the night where she hooked up with Rossman.
Whatever the scenario it is apparent she was having a problem remembering things…to much alcohol will do this. I don’t know much about the date rape drug except what I have read, and that is that it can inebriate an individual and cause them to not remember when they wake up.
I’d like to know why Lauren and Rossman went to her Apt after kilroys? I doubt it was to fool around since she had roommates. She may have not known her phone was at Kilroys after she left and thought it was at home. She than walks back with Rossman to check Rosenbaums Apt and gives her purse a through going over outside the building. (did you see the purse she was carrying in the pic of her leaving that night…it is HUGE). Once back at Rosenbaum’s she starts to party some more…what really happens next is anyone’s guess.
There is a rumor and I don’t know if it is true, but they are saying that Rosenbaum and Wolff (Lauren’s boyfriend) both belonged to the Alpha Epsilon Pi Fraternity. This fraternity was closed in 2008 for hazing; one hazing practice included driving pledges out in the country and leaving them to find their way back to the frat house. This would explain how an out-of-towner would know specific rural areas of Bloomington. I would not think they would take them more than a 4-6 Hr walk from their frat house.
The fraternity was reopened in 2010, but it would be hard to believe they would still be hazing…thus, how would Rosenbaum and Wolff know the rural locations around Bloomington unless they had some specific party areas there.
It is a quick drive to Rt 37 from the area where Lauren went missing and North or South will lead to rural location. An out-of-towner would prob head North toward the state park. A local abductor would have all kinds of places.
heading east or west is also rural
The white river off of 46 could be a place some would be familiar with.
who else was present at Rosenbaums when Lauren was last there?
Update 6-23-11: Yesterday's press conference revealed nothing that has not already been discussed. While Lauren's parents are disappointed in the number of tips and the less then 50 people who showed up for the most recent search, the overall suport for finding Lauren and the truth has been just short of remarkable. While this tragic event has forever changed the Speirer's life, life must go on. Unless Lauren's body wound up in a landfill, eventually she will be found. Perhaps, only then will some answers become apparent. As for who was at Rosenbaum's appartment that early morning, one suspecs that the official response is likely as follows: Early that morning, Lauren and David Rohn were at Jay Rosenbaum's appartment. Cory Rossman joined them at Rosenbaum's. Rossman and Lauren then left to go to Sports. Lauren and Rossman went to Smallwood, where Rossman got punched. Rossmman and Lauren then returned to Rossman's apartment where he was put to bed by Mike Beth. Lauren then went over to Rosenbaum's. I have seen no evidence that Beth was ever at Rosenbaum's apartment that early morning . (Another blog claims Beth was present prior to Lauren and Rossman visiting Sports. ) There is no official report of anyone else having been present at Rosenbaum's when Lauren was last present. However, it is certainly possible that someone else was present and that person's identity has not been released. Based on the released evidence, Rosenbaum was the last to see Lauren Spierer. (Another blog claims it was Mike Beth.) Beth and Rossman have fully cooperated and remain in Bloomington.
Two questions for Jesse Wolff's attorney: When does Jesse's roommate say that he last saw Jesse? Second, Did you read your client's Facebook postings?
Legal Pub said...
(Two questions for Jesse Wolff's attorney: When does Jesse's roommate say that he last saw Jesse? Second, Did you read your client's Facebook postings?)
Good point, I have read his facebook posting someone posted and it is apparent that as of May 30th there seems to be trouble in their relationship as he is asking Lauren to re-friend him.
Read FBI profiler John Douglas's book "Journey into Darkness". He explains how many everyday people react to a murder they have committed. They try to leave town and/or seclude themselves. Drastically change their habits. Avoid friends and family of the victim and police contact.
He also explains how it is never any one thing that causes such a murder but a building up of events that lead to a stresser event that can cause one to snap.
I'm not saying Wolff is guilty but I see possibly three stresser events that night that could cause him to react. Along with his facebook posts leading up to the event and his actions afterwords the police defiantly need to look closer at him.
Remember he did report Lauren missing to her family but did not file the missing persons complaint, two of Laurens friends went to the police and did. He left town two days afterward and got a lawyer. There are reports from NY that the Wolff residence is clocked in darkness...
If it were my girlfriend missing I would stay in town and help as much as possible even if I could not go on the searches.
His actions are remarkably similar to what Mr Douglas tell us to look for in a case of this type...
...just saying, he needs to be looked at as much as Rosenbaum.
I also read his last know whereabouts were in his room at 2:30 AM...not sure if this is accurate but it has bee said.
L.P. and Video Guy:
First, thanks for asking the tough questions, but I doubt we will get an answer from the attorney.
Second, silence does not surprise me as this is a tight knit group. Spierer, two of her Indiana University roommates, her boyfriend Jessie and perhaps some other friends all went to the same religious co-ed sleepaway camps in Pennsylvania. Not sure who knows what or if any know anything. But if they did know something, not sure they would rat out another unless they were 100% certain.
Anony 1:31 PM
No matter how close knit they are one of their group is missing and possibly murdered. Laurens parents want justice and will throw a monkey wrench into any efforts to hide Lauren’s abductor, or what ever happened.
LE does not need a body to build a case should that be the scenario…everything these people of interest do from now on is evidence that can be used against them, especially phone records, their actions, a loose lip…ect.
It is Zach Oakes, not Oates.
For one it is very weird that Lauren had a boyfriend of over two years and she was walking around drunk with other boys at that time of the night. What would her boyfriend feel about that? IF angry maybe he waited until she came home and jumped her and disposed of her body after killing her. I suspect if there was an altercation with his boyfriends he had to be some how involved in this.
Wouldn't you think IF we can think this the police and FBI had to have thought this.
I also don't believe the other two men let her walk home alone. What friend or friends would do that especially men/boys.
Another thing this truck. It went around TWICE. Don't you think that if that truck stopped and picked her up and put her in some kind of bag in the truck they would never have a trace of her actually body/DNA in there? There is such a big piece missing to this puzzle obviously and I can't imagine that the professional forces involved in finding her have not yet put two and two together.
Also, 'why' didn't the room mate call her parents when she didn't return home that night? Does she do this a lot and it is her pattern where her room mate didn't worry? Was there some jealous ring going on behind the scenes? I am not quite sure I believe the three boys involved. Not as much Corey but the other two that night.
Just think a beautiful, small helpless girl? HMMMMMMMMMM It is all very sad and it scares me to death to think you send your beautiful kids off to college and then take the chance of never seeing them again. How sad!!!! My heart goes out to her family and friends. I often wonder if she is yet another Natalie Holloway situation. Let's hope for a positive outcome although as time goes on I think she is gone for good and has past away.
Come on guys we all know the time line and saw her on video but yet no one knows what happened to her in such a small time frame.
For one maybe she 'never' left their apts and she overdosed and they got scared and dumped her body? You never know what one might do when they are scared and there is a death on their hands especially if they were doing the drugs also. They would not want to have a drug test etc. so it would be easier to dispose of her body.
I just hope she is not being tormented and hurt. I have been following this story ever since it happened and my heart goes out to everyone connected to her.
It is sad that others that have the same situation don't have the money to generate help and back up because of lack of funds. No person or family should ever have to go through this nightmare and I am deeply sorry for everyone that knew her.
I hope every single day that when I go on the computer there will be a happy ending although I doubt it at this point. Too much time went by and I have a feeling she is gone.
Raise the reward money. It's been said here before, and I agree and will say it again: at a certain dollar amount, it will be irresitable to someone with information. A couple of days ago, this happened in another case. The FBI has been searching for years and years for Whitey Bulgher, the Boston mobster. Two (2) days ago, after the FBI ran a television ad raising the reward for information leading to his capture to $2,000,000, he was caught. Jim Irsay and Colt players: Please help! There are more than 50 players on the team. If each put in $10,000 that would be $500,000 which the owner could certainly match or double or triple. It would be so easy for the Colts to come up with a miliion or two million dollar reward for information leadinfg to finding Lauren. Unless the police, FBI, and other officals responsible for the search for Lauren Spierer believe it is not in the best interest in finding her, then PLEASE help with money ... money talks and may help someone who needs to talk speak up.
http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2744202/posts?page=1
it may seem like an unusual place to find if but not really when you read it
Everyone who knows anything has "lawyered up"..It's going nowehere
the BPD is in tough spot as it seems that a certain POI (not meaning the BF) left town before the investigation got its legs - in addition the BPD seemed to be focused early on the wrong tenants at 5 North - now many POIs left early so only the innocent were left to investigate and others left soon or later and are out of state - so where does that leave a bringing a grand jury in for indictment assuming that they have a suspect but no body? - all in my humble opinion
but BPD is in a tough spot it seems on top of that everyone is lawyered, including one with the so called tyson dream team
hope this weekend turns the tables as i hate to b-town in this position let alone the family of the missing
It really is amazing how the person's of interest hightailed it out of town within 48 hours of the dissapearance
Foster killed his girlfriend in an act of passion. There is no way he had anything to do with Lauren.
Also, it seems like tomorrow might be the last major search for a while.
I'm glad that the police are "confident something will come together in this case" but it would be really nice to know why exactly they are so confident
qualters was pretty clear about his thoughts regarding her so called friends - wow
yes, they are certainly guilty of being awful people who are viciously prudent about getting legal representation. I guess all that drug abuse didn't addle their brains to the point where they lost a healthy fear of losing their freedom.
by all accounts this is close and pretty large group of friends or at least acquaintances and yet only ONE person has talked to police without the police going looking for them
i mean is that normal in any investigation like this?
is this all people making personal decisions or organizational (community, frat, etc.)
this must just add insult to their daughters disappearance
and it seems like the BPD isn't warning people about an at loose nutjob snatching people off a central b-town street so qualters comments regarding the lack of forthcomingness of her 'friends' is something going to that...
what a horrible situation for the family the police and b-town/iu community
shameful
Police SEEM to have blown the initial focus. Not so important what went on with CR as it was after CR went to bed. MB apparently watched her go to JR. JW is supposedly in bed after 2:30.
Hard to believe that one of JW friends failed to tell him LS was with Rossman. Since Rossman lives near JR, wouldn't it be natural for JW to check the place out?
Could still be random, but I think the police have narrowed it down ... real far down.
I hate all the rumors like DR was a confidential informant. Even if true, so what?
Well, that's certainly interesting. This is the first I, and I imagine most readers, have heard about "DR" informing. Is he the "one friend" whose help Mrs. Spierer acknowledged?
JUST sent in this tip:
This man, or somebody quoting him posted "To lauren spierer..i told the cops where u r. Please stay out of my dreams.i tried but they dont believe me. God help you." on a IDS article about lauren with a link to his facebook profile. These are just a couple of his postings that are about Lauren. There are a lot more about a possible siting in his taxi. I hope this helps bring Lauren home!
This is a link to his facebook profile:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=542469538&sk=wall
Bob Marcum On June 4th I had a girl in my taxicab that I believe was Lauren Spierer, the missing girl. The cops believed her story that she wasn't the one even tho she had no ID.I gave the detective all the info and I hope he goes to that address and finds her.
June 13 at 3:41pm
Bob Marcum
To lauren spierer..i told the cops where u r. Please stay out of my dreams.i tried but they dont believe me. God help you.
Tuesday at 8:19pm via Mobile Web
I'd advise others to do the same and e-mail or call in about this man! He could be crazy but every little tip helps!!
It took 3 minutes to get from Kilroy's to Smallwood, yet 8 minutes to get from smallwood to the Alley? What happened on the way to the Alley?
"At 1:46 am Lauren entered Kilroy's, exited at 2:27 am”
"At 2:30 entered Smallwood, exited at 2:40 am"
"Lauren entered north/south alley at 2:48 am"
"Lauren exited the alley at 2:51 am"
It only took 10 minutes to go to the 5th floor and get in a fight and come back out...... Is this the alley her belongings were found in?
How would Lauren have cash for a cab ride without her purse?
Obviously something happened in the alley such as a kiss, a conversation, digging in purse etc.
It is possible a security person or a friend may have stopped and talked to Lauren and/or CR... in the alley.
But no matter what, keep in mind she did exit the alley!
anyone interesting live in the 10th and college apartments?
It seems like there could be a connection between the owner of Smallwood and JR and/or JW (same frat I think). How well did they know each other or did their families know him? It also seems suspicious that it took so long to get those tapes at Smallwood. Several days is a long time. Can tapes be erased, cameras deleted? Could the owner have helped in any way that night with whatever was done? And the fact that the police initially did not want the fight on the 5th floor publicly acknowleged seems important info as well. Just an opinion.
Bring in her Her roommate, Rosenbaum, Weiss,Beth. oakes,Rossman, etc....Sit em down in different rooms and question them all and see if there stories match...Problem is all these cowards lawyered up..
To those that say these boys are not gentlemen for letting Lauren walk home alone at 4:30 AM, I ask you to consider this:
Every guy associated with Lauren and this group in that 5 North building new within minutes that Wolff’s friends punched out Rossman for probably just being near Lauren. Do you think any one of them would want to be seen walking next to her no matter what time it was, with Wolff’s henchman beating on guys within an arms length of Lauren. Like it or not, Wolff and his friends are indirectly responsible for Lauren ending up alone walking the streets at 4:30 AM…IMO
And another thing, a few days after Lauren went missing her friends were at the 5 North Townhome Apt’s and were in a confrontation with Rossman. Rossman is not a part of their group and apparently they were holding him responsible. NOW, these same friends are keeping silent even with Lauren’s mother asking them for help and to come forward with information. Rossman has complied completely with LE, even letting them search his car. It is as if Laurens friends were sticking together, willing to confront people like Rossman in the beginning, and now they are silent, as if they know it is one of them.
Quote:
(It took 3 minutes to get from Kilroy's to Smallwood, yet 8 minutes to get from smallwood to the Alley? What happened on the way to the Alley?)
Kilroys is about 1/2 a block from smallwood and the ally-way is like 2 blocks...that is what happened. The timing is relative.
How about Jon_Michael who posted creepy comments on the FB for Lauren Spierer? He posts on his FB account photos, his phone number and his address "500 Basswood Apt" which is where the murder happend for Angela Holder. Would one think this is related? Her purse was found where Lauren went missing. One of his comments in a post was that they owe him huge.
Add in the taxi driver, Bob Marcum...what is this is tied together in a strange sort of way causing him to provide hints he knew something? Is Foster a druggie looking for a score from the partiers and Lauren was out at the same time, maybe took Lauren home and his wife caught him and that is why they had a dispute? Possible? Maybe Jon Michael saw things and is providing hints.
These things have been reported to authorities as seen in various posts.
Another area I wonder if they searched are the garbage shoots advertized at Smallwood, on each floor or unit.
Well, she probably is dead in a cornfield. Perhaps they will find her this fall when they harvest corn.
Perhaps in time she will be discovered.
Rossman was punched because he was acting inappropriately with Lauren, according to Wolff’s fraternity friends who punched him. If he was acting inappropriate why would Lauren walk home with him and part of the route through an ally?
What were Wolff’s fraternity friends doing at Smallwood in the first place?
Apparently someone also seen Rossman acting inappropriately with Lauren at Kilroys, was this one of Wolff’s fraternity friends? Did they follow Rossman and Lauren from Kilroys?
Rosenbaum did not have a vehicle or access to one at that time.
Wolff did have a car and gave a ride to one of his housemates for an 8:00 AM class Friday morning. According to Wolff’s housemates, there is a five-hour span that they cannot account for him as they were sleeping themselves, they assume he was in his room sleeping. According to Laurens timeline this would give Wolff a three-hour time span to have been involved with Laurens disappearance.
According to Wolff’s brother, after 48 hours the Wolff family already decided that Lauren was probably dead, and the reason little Wolff came home is he could no longer look at all the pictures of Lauren spread around town looking back at him…hummmm??
It is increasingly interesting that her friends won't talk - Rosenbaum in particular. Personally, I now think her friends know what happened to her - it was probably drugs. Some have hired criminal defense attorneys. Someone is going to prison.
Update 6-27-11: The days of wanting to clear one's name in the press has apparently become a thing of the past for some. Neither Jason Rosenbaum nor Jesse Wolff apparently have anything to say to Mr. or Mrs Spierer about their daughter. Their attorneys remain tight lipped as well. The Spierers just want closure. Nevertheless, there are growing rumors that Rosenbaum had a guest at his home that early morning besides Lauren. Police have not officially released the guest's name. The problem with rumors is that it can spread inaccurate information and spoil an investigation. If they turn out true, they can be darn right embarrassing for law enforcement if they let such an individual slip away without so much as an interview. So until either the police or the person's of interest come forward with facts, there is not much to do but ignore the rumors and wait until Lauren is discovered.
Now that we know Rosenbaum's old man is loaded, money has come into the picture and as long as there is money involved with high priced lawyers, etc..you can be sure every conceivable avenue to get Rosenbaum to talk is now shut down.
Most of the POI have money! None of the lawyers involved are exactly chopped liver.
I have heard about the guest from Michigan at Rosenbaums as well. If true, how did they get there? Drive? Fly in? If they drove it would mean that Rosenbaum DID have access to a vehicle that weekend.
This also brings up the possibility that the witness who seen Lauren being thrown over someone’s shoulder at 3:38 AM may have some substance to it. The 4:30 AM report by Rosenbaum as the last time Lauren was last seen would than be a lie that could be a cover for his friend…but that would not explain the 4:15 call to Rohn.
Some have now said that the 4:15 AM call to Rohn was for a ride home for Lauren and not her looking for her phone…who knows?
No matter what Rosenbaum will need an attorney should Lauren’s body be found since he was the last to see her and the suspicion of an overdose floating around…innocent or not. Being wealthy it only makes since he would hire the best, not necessary an admission of guilt.
If this guest was there when did s/he leave? And if they did drive and there was an OD and a hiding of the body, does mean that Lauren was dumped somewhere in between Bloomington and their home town in Michigan?
It's starting to feel like there may never be a resulution to this..Searches slowing down, people close to her lawyering up, media stories slowing down,Students leaving town so fast...Not lookin good..
Update 6-28-11: Early release of tomorrow's update. Attorney James Voyles is truly a master who knows that silence is not always golden. Credit has to be given to Rosenbaum's attorney for not remaining silent. Monday afternoon, Voyles told the press that Rosenbaum has cooperated fully. He claims that his client gave "a full statement" to authorities and also said that the results of a polygraph have been shared with the police. (Presumably Voyles had a private polygraph given to Rosenbaum.) Does this open the door for the police to provide a response to the press? May they now ask this cooperative witness additional questions?
Read about him taking a polygraph, didn’t know it was taken in privet. Does this give LE the chance to give him a polygraph of their own?
I don’t know why people bother with them since they are not admissible in court. Even if one passes and they are arrested anyway it cannot be used in court to claim innocent…so why bother.
Poly’s are considered voodoo science and they are entirely dependant on the way any one individual administering the test interprets it. And like many so called experts it depends on who is paying them.
Lauren lost her keys to her apartment and her friend didn't answer her call. Hope the police are checking various ways she may have tried to get into the building or apartment. A woman in Austin tried to get into a building via ductwork and was presumed to have disappeared without a trace, like Lauren. She was found 1 month later deceased inside the ventilation system.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/missing-womans-body-found-in-ventilation-system-police-1566142.html
not likely lauren made it anywhere close to hr appartment that morning or video would likely show her...
Rosenbaum claims he saw her leave.Do we even know if that is true?
She will never be found…nor will anyone ever be charged, its OVER! Find another case to follow or a good book to read, this one will go into the many unsolved missing person files, forgotten and to gather dust.
Sad...
@Video Guy
Unfortunately, I feel you are probably correct. I know you've been following this closely, as have I, and I know how frustrating it is when you're anxious for her to be found.
And if this is so frustrating for us as outsiders, just imagine how her family feel...
...it's horrendous to consider what they are going through.
This, and all other missing persons cases are heartbreaking.
I am still stuck on Brian Shaffer's case from 2006...
I continue to look for any updates.... but never finding any.
That case had so many tragedies within his family...
...his poor father. And younger brother... the only one left now.
Brian's lovely fiancee was devastated, but has managed to move on now, at least.
Kyron Horman is another sad case, and probably will never be resolved.
There are just so many. It's disgusting.
IT will one day be solved.
A couple observations:
#1: I hope the police are figuring out how to sync up/correct all the times on the various surveillance video. Times are understandably inaccurate due to 1)semi-annual time change which is still kind of new to Indiana, AND 2) all clocks tend to get a few minutes off if not re-set regularly.
#2: NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER MIDNIGHT. Please teach this to your daughters, sisters, friends. Drunk driving accidents usually happen after midnight; random violence usually happens after midnight; bar fights usually happen after midnight, and so on. And females are most vulnerable, especially those weighing under 100 pounds! Ladies, please learn from Lauren's mistakes and take care of yourselves.
ANon B-town is so right! Nothing good ever happens after midnight. I used to bounce and I can tell you 90% of the trouble was always after 12:30 a.m. Now days some kids don't even come out until then.
I ge the impression that HT did not know LS had not come home. Not unusual that she would not look in on a roommate because students blow off friday morning class all the time. JW supposedly went to HT's classroom to get her keys so he could check to see if she was here.
Not sure if anyone thought to see if LS medication was taken for Friday. This assumes she had a pill box for medication and perhaps birth control pills.
I SAY ADD RICK SPRINGFIELD AS A PERSON OF INTEREST. He wrote:
Yeah I know he's been a good friend of mine
But lately something's changed
It ain't hard to define
Jessie's got himself a girl
And I want to make her mine
And she's watching him with those eyes
And she's lovin' him with that body, I just know it
And he's holding her in his arms late, late at night
You know I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
Where can I find a woman like that
I'll play along with this charade
That doesn't seem to be a reason to change
You know I feel so dirty when they start talking cute
I wanna tell her that I love her but the point is probably moot
'Cause she's watching him with those eyes
And she's lovin' him with that body, I just know it
And he's holding her in his arms late, late at night
You know I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
Where can I find a woman like that?
Like Jessie's Girl
I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
Where can I find a woman
Where can I find a woman like that
And I'm lookin' in the mirror all the time
Wonderin' what she don't see in me
I've been funny; I've been cool with the lines
Ain't that the way love's supposed to be
Tell me where can I find a woman like that
You know I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
I want Jessie's girl
Where can I find a woman like that?
Like Jessie's Girl
I wish that I had Jessie's Girl
I want, I want Jessie's Girl
Let me say this…I’m the last one to slander, or cast a shadow on a victim. I have been sticking up for victims rights now for years, especially in the Shanda Sharer case. So I’ll say this: I wild spend my own money to produce a video if I think it would help, spend years in the forums defending a victims rights and those videos if necessary, will join in discussions of cases that are unsolved, or at large, hours and days researching the information…and I don’t like to be fooled!
Allegedly Lauren was in a rehab program for drinking since at college, she was not suppose to be out drinking that night since she recently received a ticket for public intoxication…there are signs of a substance abuse problem here. Had she been with her boyfriend that night none of this would have happened as he would not let her abuse drink or drugs. The kid Rossman who she meet just a few weeks earlier had no idea of her past history of substance abuse and likely did not know about her heart condition. The confrontation at Smallwood was because Rossman was acting inappropriately with Lauren by the standards of her boyfriends friends who happened upon them there…so he got punched. Lauren was told by these friends to “Go home and go to bed”. Instead she leaves with Rossman…why? Because when one does cocaine, at 3:00 AM all they want is more cocaine! And allegedly Lauren was doing cocaine with her heart condition; while drinking and possibly other substances, and it appears that she went back to the 5 North building to do more cocaine…allegedly. She was hanging with these guys she barley knew and partying with them because they did not know about her substance abuse past and her heart condition, and for the reason that her boyfriend would not let her behave this way.
Did she OD at 5 North…probably! Why would they hide the body, these are wealthy privileged kids here and I’m sure their families do not hold them responsible for what happened that night…right or wrong.
I’ll probably catch some shit for this but I believe that one is responsible for their own actions, especially at 20 years old. And Lauren is responsible for what she ingests into her system, especially with her health issues, one cannot force anyone to do something they do not want to do, unless at gunpoint…and I doubt this happened. There was no stranger abduction, no jealous boyfriend, just some young people making some bad decisions that night/morning.
My deepest heart felt sympathies to Laurens family and all her friends who loved her.
Anony 3:10 PM said:
(I used to bounce and I can tell you 90% of the trouble was always after 12:30 a.m.)
I use to bounce when a young man as well and I would add “after the bars close”. I also am aware that there are two type of people who are out partying after the bars close.
1) the bouncers , waitresses, and bartenders, who’s night of parting had just begun and 2) the people who do not know when to stop after the bars close, for what ever reasons.
Polygraphs: Some defense attorneys have their clients undergo polygraph tests, which detect deception by measuring changes in breathing, heart rate and sweat gland activity, to see how they would likely do if they submit to a police polygraph.
If your client passes, a lawyer can elect to share the favorable results with law enforcement.
If the client fails, those results are discarded and kept confidential. Check the archives. Legal Pub has previously written about the inaccuracy of polygraph tests. Results can vary depending upon the qualifications, honesty, integrity and ethics of the examiner.
Personally, I think it is a mistake for any person of interest to submit to a police polygraph unless one is confident of the result. Even then, I would counsel caution.
I really wish Google Maps would update the DT Bloomington area -- both street-view and arial!
Update 6-29-11: State police helicopters flew over the Bloomington area confirming what has already been reported, the area is vast with lots of wooded areas and bodies of water. Official searches have been called off. The McNutt search headquarters will close today. Future searches will be conducted only pursuant to reliable tips. Presumably law enforcement has checked local land fills...
I really doubt anything sinister, at least by her friends. JR could be wrong about the time she left his residence or even where she was when he last saw her. That is a busy street. She could have been picked u by anyone after she left JR's.
Now there is rumors about a missing sleeping bag. When is the nonsense going to stop and the known facts be made public?
For example who was last seen with her on videotape?
Who moved her keys to the rail?
Who reported her keys to the police?
Was there a single drop of blood found anywhere Lauren might have been that night?
The public is invited to a prayer service in honor of Lauren Spierer.
Spirit 95 is hosting the service Thursday night at 7:00 pm at Evangelical Community Church on South High Street.
The last scheduled press conference at BPD will be held FRIDAY JULY 1 11:00 AM. CHARLENE AND ROBERT will be reading a statement about their daughter.
Shout out to video guy:
How about making a video reenactment of the last hours before Lauren is reported missing. Perhaps Hadir Tamir and Mr. and Mrs Spierer would agree to appear as there selves. This could be a great tool so that the facts are distinguished from the rumors and the message not forgotten.
Could become mandatory viewing for those planning to go away to college.
Keep in mind we do not live in a police state where subjects are forced to submit to unfair interrogation. Indiana will not tolerate strong armed confessions like what apparently happened during the 1987 homicide investigation involving Peggy Hettrick. Timothy Masters, who was actually convicted of the crime, has recently been exonerated after serving ten years of a life sentence. Masterson was saved by DNA evidence. Shortly after the crime, the 15 year-old Masterson was subjected to vigorous police interrogation which ultimately resulted in his conviction.
Anony 12:30 PM:
Not the time to do such a video as some facts are unknown and unproven, and probably will be for a long time. Besides, the facts are a constantly waving variable influenced by speculation, opinion, and what one wants to believe. What would the final message be? Don’t walk alone at night in Bloomington, don’t party to excess, or young girls shouldn’t party with a group of guys?
I feel a closer look at the drug laws and how an over dose is perceived as criminal behavior needs to be looked at as more important at this time.
Indiana had legislation on the table to not charge callers reporting an over dose and to let them have anonymity…to save lives. It was defeated as they would rather convict anyone associated with that over dose than save lives…I’m sure others states have the same policy. We have enough people in prisons in this country, and many for the wrong reasons.
And don’t get into the supplier argument here because if you look at the big picture the war on drugs is just a joke. Designed for influential, connected people to have control of the market. Where do you think the pharmaceutical cocaine that is out on the street comes from?
Also,
Read the book “Wired” about John Belushi. The woman who was with him and did inject the drugs into him was arrested for his murder, they did lessen the charges and many were dropped but she did serve time. John paid for the drugs and would have injected them himself if she wasn’t there, or would have found someone else to do it. He was very persuasive.
How persuasive was he, unless you read the book one wouldn’t know that not all that long before he OD’ed, John was in Chicago partying it up in the city, his brother Jim (before he was famous) got word of it and went to find him. Drove all the way from the western suburbs to downtown and found him. They got in a fight than John persuaded Jim that things were not that bad and they both went out to party downtown all night long, drinking and snorting coke together. Though john may have paid for the cocaine there is no doubt that Jim would have cut-out some of the lines they both snorted throughout the evening. Had John OD’ed that night should his brother Jim be held responsible for his death for being with him and cutting out some of the lines of cocaine ingested? And if so where would Jim Belushi be now? Convicted of murder for his brothers death, sentenced as a felon, ostracized from the entertainment community for the rest of his life…C’mon!
John was going to use those drugs no matter what! He is responsible for their results
Blogger Legal Pub said...
(Keep in mind we do not live in a police state where subjects are forced to submit to unfair interrogation.)
Good point, and because of the high profile of this case with the public demand for an answer...there is undeserved pressure on LE to solve this, adding greater chance for an error on their behalf.
I should point out in the Belushi post that when Jim went to find him it was not to party with him but to bring him home and keep him away from the drugs.
Message to college kids:
1. Don't walk alone late at night or early in the morning.
2. Moderation. Keep control of your faculties and your surroundings.
3. Don't put yourself in positions where things can go wrong quickly.
Tim Masterson got shafted!
http://www.facebook.com/prince.dance
^ who is this idiot posting his stupid songs and creepy sayings like "oops lmao" on lauren spierer's family's offical facebook page for updates.
And can someone clue me in on who jon michael is???
Tonight 6-29-11 BPD went to JR's 5 North Townhomes with search dogs. Why, I have no idea but seems odd to me. Did someone find something or what. We all know what the dogs are for in this situation. But this happened today.
JR01
Did you see this or hear about it?
If true, think about the dog in the Casey Anthony case and its specialty, they are not as abundant as a tracking dog so it may have taken some time to schedule such a dog, along with the special search warrant, I would think. JR’s snail mail polygraph report and his phoned in statements may have encouraged this.
Should this dog indicate a hit, I would expect an attempt to extradite JR back to B-town for questioning.
Interesting development…thanks!
I just read they were also at JW, the boyfriends residence before the 5 north building
Here is a link about the search:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-2301833.sto
I’m thinking of two reasons for this search,
1)cadabber dog (spelling?)
2)Drug dog
Either one with a hit would give LE a good reason to bring these boys back, maybe they had one of each.
Update 6-30-11: The police search for DNA has intensified. On Wednesday, law enforcement and their K-9's sniffed inside the apartments located at Five North Complex at 11th and Morton. According to the Herald Times, Bloomington police also searched Jesse Wolff’s house in the 600 block of East Ninth Street. At the Five North apartments, they apparently searched Corey Rossman and Mike Beth's apartment. It is unknown whether they also entered Jay Rosenbaum's apartment.
I don't doubt that JW would consent to a search of his apartment as from what I can gather, he apparently had nothing to do with the disappearance!
From what I have read, the night Lauren disappeared, JW: was home with a roommate watching basketball. He went to bed at 2:30 a.m.
He woke up later that morning and tried to contact Lauren who had left her phone at Kilroys. He drives a roommate to class. He gets Lauren's keys from HT. He talks to Lauren's roommates. He calls Laurens family. He retrieves Lauren's phone from Kilroy's. He encourages Lauren's friends to contact police. He obtains JR's cell number and apparently inquires as to Lauren's whereabouts.
Based on what I believe his roommates will say, JW's actions and demeanor are that of an innocent worried boyfriend.
I think we have several suspects at this point, and the likelihood of this being random after all the events of the evening would be like winning the lottery or getting stuck my lightning. Right now we have a magical disappearing body. I think they have a theory but can't figure out how they pulled off such a magic trick. And I believe everyone's actions that night are bizarre. Is JW involved, I don't know. But if you did something it sure looks like he did everything in the right order afterwards to cover his tracks and look like the worried boyfriend. Personally, I don't think it's him. I to am perplexed at how they pulled this off. BPD i think has a lot more than we know... just figure out the magic trick.
As a side-note.. Long time reader of this site but finally decided to join in on the discussion. I work closely with the media and this story has haunted me from day one because something doesn't add up.
Was Arjun Babu the "possible house guest" of JR that morning?
JR01 and StuKy:
Welcome. Four years ago we had an idea to intermingle the legal and comedy professions into a "virtual legal pub" where opinions were welcome on interesting topics.
Ironically, the lawyers wanted to demonstrate their ability to be humerous and the comedians wanted to share their legal knowledge.
Thus, over the years, readers, contributors, and even lawyers chose to pursue more serious topics. Involved victims, families, attorneys and friends sometimes volunteer to update, clarify and/or otherwise share insights. Sometimes these are publicly shared as interviews and other time they remain confidential.
The site is, however, most proud of it's scholarly articles, statistics and its continued ablilty to educate in an entertaining forum.
FYI: Besides the public comment function, confidential email may be submitted to legalpub@legalpub.net.
Okay: You spot lighted JW. Now spotlight JR:
JR admits she used his phone to try to call DR at 4:15 am. He says she left his place at 4:30. There are no cameras where Lauren was last seen walking. There are no cameras on the specific block where Lauren was last seen. JR saw her walk out of his apartment and down his street. On his street there is an alley that leads to Smallwood. LS could have walked down the alley where there are no cameras.
Abduction by a stranger in the alley is more probable then a fellow college student hiding a body without having a car. (Not sure if his house guest had a car.)
Sorry folks but as far as JW is concerned, We ahve no alabi for his whereabouts after 2:30AM except that he was sleeping which there is NO way to confirm. The love of his life goes missing and he lawyers up and gets on the next plane to Long Island and shuts down..Uh-uh, no way this sounds on the level to me..
Good summaries or spotlights for JR and JW! Keep em coming!
Anony 10:54 AM
I was leaning heavily against JW for all of the above reasons you have stated. Especially because of his actions after he left town. Until I came across some posts where JW’s roommate was in a discussion with a friend of the people at 5 North and knew JR. This was a most interesting discussion and JW’s roommate truly believes that he was there all night and I can see no reason for him to lie for him. Especially with the seriousness of this crime. Yes he could have snuck out without his knowledge and there was time to commit such a crime, but his roommate can vouch that JW gave him a ride to class at 8:00 AM and was completely normal, and I believe him. I cannot see this young man acting normal should he have committed this crime unless he is a total sociopath or an academy award winning actor.
Conscious: “Hey Video Guy, it is spelled cadaver not cadabber you fu*ken idiot”
Video Guy: “I know, I was tired and could not think of the actual name”
Conscious: “than why even post it, besides it only takes a min. to check”
Video Guy: “Get off my freaking back, I’m working on other things as well. And stop swearing in here!”
Conscious: “$#*k you, I told you we should go get some beer and relax a bit”
My Spotlight is on the Garage:
There are no cameras on the dumpster at 5 North. BPD searched the 5 North property again yesterday with dogs. Now it is my belief that if you stay up with owles at night partying, then you'd know that the garbage man empties the dumpsters at 5am.
If Lauren made her way to the dumpster, she is long gone by 8:00a.m.
Anony 12:25 PM
I read a post from a guy who use to work at the dump where the dumpsters load would have been taken in Terre Haute. Apparently that dumpster would have been emptied at 5:30 AM and taken to the dump soon after. And from the volume of garbage that comes in there, Indianapolis included, that load would have been long covered over with other garbage and dirt by the time Lauren was reported missing.
Legal had mentioned a similar scenario to me with the dumpster weeks ago.
I just have one problem with the dumpster theory. After the dumpster’s trash is picked up by a garbage truck, it is taken to a location nearby where it is dumped, and usually sorted for recyclables. Than loaded by an end-loader into a larger semi trailer that takes it to the dumb. The garbage doesn’t just go from dumpster to truck to dump, there is much handling of that garbage before it goes to the dump. At the dump it is graded out and the guys who work there are always looking for valuable things in the new loads of garbage…I knew a guy who worked at one too.
BTW..a garbage truck can legally weigh about 50,000 lbs and those trucks are heavy without the load of garbage. They are not actually carrying all that much of a garbage load compared to a semi. The semi can legally weigh about 72,000 lbs and the truck itself is much lighter. This is why it is dumped nearby and loaded into the semi for the longer haul...economics.
Also…my friend who worked at the dump always had copper wire, and other recyclable metals he use to collect from the dump than sell. Most of them guys know what values lie in the garbage loads that come in…this is the human factor that many do not consider with this theory.
She may have slipped by them, but you can see the % is now much lower that she did…just saying.
So even if JW goes to sleep at 2:30 and drives his roommate to class at 8AM, in all honesty NOONE can confirm his whereabouts between 2:30 and 8AM, and that contains the time she went missing..
Anonymous said...
(So even if JW goes to sleep at 2:30 and drives his roommate to class at 8AM, in all honesty NOONE can confirm his whereabouts between 2:30 and 8AM, and that contains the time she went missing..)
Agreed…but at 8:00 AM he’d have the shakes, and be all sweaty, and wouldn’t be able to focus on any conversation as his most recent crime would dominant any other thoughts. Besides, he allegedly just killed the girl he had been dating…I would think he would have been crying for no reason as well. I had based my assumption on the rumors that he avoided people, including LE, and left town ASAP, than hid away in his house. Some of this is true, but he was not acting strange at 8:00AM when he should have been. His roommate has absolutely no reason to lie for him and risk charges of being involved with a cover-up. And if he was involved I highly doubt he would be on the internet debating with people.
And I do believe it was his roommate posting and not Wolff spreading misinformation.
(he’d have the shakes, and be all sweaty, and wouldn’t be able to focus on any conversation as his most recent crime would dominant any other thoughts. Besides, he allegedly just killed the girl he had been dating…I would think he would have been crying for no reason as well.)
Again...this is the human factor, and we are not talking about Ted Bundy here...JW is a college kid with no previous murder experience.
What a barn burner, you got JW, You got JR and you got the mystery guest. My bet is one of them knows more than they are telling...
Video guy, if we accept that, then it all comes down to JR, the last person to see her.
We hear nothing about JR and the way he was acting that day…nothing! People do say he is not smart enough to hide her body if she OD’ed and get away with it. So if she did OD in his apt he probably did not understand the garbage collecting, sorting, reloading process and probably would have just tossed her in a dumpster, and I think her body would have been found by the dump workers before she was reported missing if this was the scenario. If she did OD in JR’s apt than someone had to have helped him dispose of the body, someone that knew tossing her in a dumpster was not a good idea…Someone who would know that the surrounding rural locations would be searched…someone that would help clean up the mess inside the Apt and slip out of town unnoticed with Lauren, while JR stayed there confused, shaken up, and sitting on the couch shitting his pants. Someone that could influence his friends it is in their best interest to STFU.
Have any ideas? Maybe try reading about the Martha Moxley case from the 70’s…at the very least it is a good read and one will learn how rich connected people handle their mishaps…and murder.
With Lauren simply vanishing without a trace from the 5 north building, I no longer consider this a case of who-done-it with the POI’s located there…I now consider who could afford to cover it up…everything has its price $$$,$$$
I must ad that I do not consider her to have been murdered, Lauren is responsible for Lauren, and what she ingests. Just maybe if the laws were not so strict about a person Od’ing and holding everyone around that person just as responsible…we just may not have this clusterfu*k.
Arjun B is roommate or friend of Z. Oakes, the person who presumably hit CR at Smallwood. Some think he might be the "mystery man" that the bar manager reportedly saw at 3:38am with Lauren (per Gatto's story). He is student at IU and not JR's houseguest (who is unidentified and presumably from his hometown and not an IU student).
There is much unknown by the public about the altercation and its aftermath and the walk from Smallwood to 5North, but it seems important. LE says there is video of LS and other person or people and "activities." Their language is very ambiguous. CR's lawyer said that CR was with LS in the alley but LE does not confirm that specifically...only says she is with someone and the way LE states it makes me think that there might be more than one person. There was some discussion that LS may have been arguing with several men. This period seems like it might be a critical one because of the purse and keys found and because LE is careful when they speak about it. Or it could just be another odd episode in a very unusual night that ended in tragedy.
Sources close to the situation don't have video guys faith in garbage sorters. Routinely the trash is emptied very early into a semi and then hauled out of town to a dump. By 8:00 any body would be long gone and buried in trash.
Once in a landfill, bodies are seldom recovered. If it was a wooded area, it would smell. If it is a cornfield, body will be recovered during the harvest. If its a body of water, unless it was weighted down, it would have floated by now.
(guys faith in garbage sorters. Routinely the trash is emptied very early into a semi and then hauled out of town to a dump. By 8:00 any body would be long gone and buried in trash.)
FACT: semi truck does not have the capabilities of picking up garbage from a dumpster. This is a specialized truck with hydraulics that’s lifts the dumpster up, and dumps said garbage from dumpster into the trucks garbage bin…where it is than compressed into its body with a hydraulic compression gate…you have seen this. NOW, think about a dead body being compressed into the garbage load…many liquids leaking out from whatever it is incased in…smells different than rotten oranges.
FACT: These specialized trucks cannot carry the load limits as a semi because of weight restrictions on side streets. And all the mechanics, hydraulics, and enclosed body weighs much. So you will not see a garbage truck cruising down any state routs or interstates to deposit their load at a dump. Unless route is located close to that dump…this is not the case here.
FACT: The local garbage truck is just that…local! It dumps its load at a local location where it is loaded onto a semi truck to make the journey to the dump caring 4-5 garbage truck loads….fuel & economics. At this local dump location many times the garbage is sorted and run through a conveyer belt with magnets to pick out heave metals…Chances are a leaking bag of human remains will be discovered here if this process is a part of B-towns system. Also, here is where the workers search for valuables, copper wire being first on their list. You may think Ewwww…garbage. But they work there everyday, with gloves and boots and shower when the get home.
FACT: Yes, many trucks dump at the same time at the dump but it is coordinated, and they must achieve a specific amount of grade before covering said garbage with dirt, that is probably called the same thing as in construction…a rise. As each truck unloads, there is a bulldozed there to spread the garbage and level it off to achieve this rise…more squishing! Each bulldozer is assigned laborers on foot (depending on Co.), they do sift through the garbage while working and share amongst themselves…my friends job. Also a Forman to coordinate the trucks and the drivers to make sure their load has been dumped completely. (yes they leave their cabs and look around for valuables while doing so)
YES…a body could have gotten through all that but as I said…the % is now lowered.
(Once in a landfill, bodies are seldom recovered)
And how the hell do you know this? If the body is never recovered from the dump how do you know it is there in the first place...???
How do you know other missing people are even there.
Apparently you are someone who doesn't give a second thought what happens to the pop or beer bottle you throw away...it mysteriously vanishes!!
do some research and visit your local garbage holding location...there is a process, and glass bottles are high on their list for recycle as well. as well as your aluminum beer cans! they have value.
Revision of deleted post:
It is our hope that whoever is responsible for L.S. mishap gets his just reward in the end.... in prison.
If Lauren's friends thought she was dead, and hid her body, what would the legal charges be? Could it be considered murder?
I'm just throwing this out there, but what if, big what if here, her body never left the vicinity of 5 North? Yes I know the smell would be off the charts but what would contain that smell? Could there be any vacant apartments close by... possible refrigeration, empty dishwasher or washing machine or whatever ?? She's not that big. And lets not forget the Purdue University student who was found in the electrical room 2 months later. Right under their noses the whole time. I'm sure it's not the case here, but it is something to consider. I'm assuming BPD has checked these places, but stranger things have happened.
Someone picked her up and took her somewhere. I'm almost positive it was from the alley. The scream the homeless guy heard from west of 15th & Woodburn is quite significant.
http://youtu.be/lNa1F5rGkB4
JR01
(her body never left the vicinity of 5 North?)
I seen a true crime show on TV where this guys wife was missing for about a month. When the cops finally got a search warrant to search his home and they eventually worked their way to the garage…they couldn’t believe it! There she was right there in his garage. He had stored her in plastic garbage bags in a rubber made garbage can right there in his garage for about a month.
I guess there was no smell because of the way he sealed her up with the garbage bags and than closed the rubber garbage can lid tight.
The cop who found her and they had interviewed on this show, said when he opened the garbage can he did a double take…he couldn’t believe it, there she was!
Even this guy knew better than to take that garbage can out to be collected. He just didn’t know what to do with her after he put her in the can or how to remove it from his house secretly.
So yea, I guess that is possible.
here ya go kids...pictures of many of the main players in this drama.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto
Andrew Compton disappesred in Louisville. Allegedly his body was placed in a dumpster. LE searched the landfill for days and found nothing.
There are numerous examples of bodies that have not been found in dumps. Land fills are search typically after a confession Despite the confessions sometimes the body still are never recovered
I have been reading about the Holly Bobo case since some news organizations are comparing it to Lauren’s case.
(Holly Bobo's 25-year-old brother told cops he saw a man pulling his sister across the carport outside their Decatur County home - and toward a wooded area Wednesday morning.)
C’mon…this is unbelievable to me, that her brother would sit there and watch someone drag his sister away…WTF kind of a brother is he?
As a brother who has went out into the night on two occasions to chase down and apprehend two perpetrators for simply looking into my sisters window late at night, this is inconceivable to me. How could he not pick up a baseball bat and chase after the guy? Just sit there and watch his baby sister being dragged away…WTF.
This one doesn’t pass the smell test, I cannot imagine any family member not willing to put their life on the line to save the other in such a situation.
Hey, I’m not saying it couldn’t happen in regards to Lauren being placed into a dumpster, I just wanted to point out that in doing so is far more riskier than people think and the % of finding her body there is high…also, they know at what time each truck from each route dumped at the garbage sorting/reloading area, and where the suspected semi caring that load had dumped their load at the dump that day. Such is the record keeping and nature of the trucking business. So it is not like they have to search the entire dump, they will search, or already have, where the garbage loads were dumped that morning from the B-town area…they know this.
Here are some links, waste management is a science now days.
http://www.swdahsv.org/tour.html
Where does Garbage go?
http://www.environmentalistseveryday.org/solid-waste-management/green-environmental-waste-collection-recycling-process/index.php
Quotes:
Transfer Stations
Waste transfer stations are facilities where municipal solid waste is unloaded from collection vehicles and briefly held while it is reloaded onto larger long-distance transport vehicles for shipment to landfills or other treatment or disposal facilities. By combining the loads of several individual waste collection trucks into a single shipment, communities can save money on the labor and operating costs of transporting the waste to a distant disposal site. They can also reduce the total number of vehicular trips traveling to and from the disposal site.
Waste processes involve separating it before it can be treated, packaged or sent for recycling or disposal
Landfills are carefully filled, monitored and maintained while they are active.
…Just saying.
Two landfills in terre haute. Not saying sorting should not take place, but I don't see much happening. Land fills are huge with trash coming in from all l
Let's see a photo of ajay
Update 7-2-11: Perhaps we were the first to point out the disparate treatment of Morgan Johnson's case in our 6-10-11 update. Now, Morgan's mom is doing something about it. Ann Smith filed a civil rights complaint against the Plainfield Police Department. She wants them taken off the case immediately and wants the state police to take over the investigation and that the case get the same attention as the Lauren Spierer case.
"Based on other current and recent investigations on other missing persons in Indiana, there is a disparity in the action taken for them and not the same actions taken for Morgan," said Smith. Ironically, at least one newspaper, the Indianapolis Star, appears to be very critical of the Bloomington police for not doing more in the 4 weeks since Lauren's disappearance.
Felicia Brown was never reported missing but her body was found in a Florida landfill after the bodies of her children were found floating in a canal...
The body of John Wheeler III, a military expert, who served in three Republican administrations was found dumped in a landfill. This quote is key: "The way they disposed of his body, it's a miracle anybody ever found it." ...
27-year-old Thomas Henry Martinez rolled out of the worker's truck as he was dumping trash at the Denver Arapahoe Disposal Site... Martinez's body was so badly decomposed that his gender, age and race were not immediately determined.
Sure those are some found. But just imagine how many are never found.
Not sure why some one asked if Arjun B was a guestof JR. He lives at 10th and college with Z.O.
I assume they have both cooperated with L.C.
Police have mistakenly forgotten that publicity is the best way to solve the missing person case now that so much time has passed.
Regarding CR and his memory loss.
Many seen to doubt he could receive a punch hard enough to do this and not remember it, or leave a mark or bruise. All are assuming he was punched in the face but he could have easily been punched in the temple or side of the head hard enough to cause memory loss leaving little to no bruises, or a bump under the hair.
I have considered the memory loss from such an event and can relate directly to it from a similar injury I received in the past, and I was not drinking or on drugs.
One Sunday my friends and I got together for a pick-up game of tackle football and we always played without equipment back then since we were young and considered ourselves invincible. At one point in the game I had a head on collision with another player and to this day remember very little except for a few snapshot images of memory. I remember nothing before the collision and only a snapshot memory right after when I placed my hand to my mouth than looked into it and it was full of blood.
The next thing I remember was about twenty minutes later, I was in my friend’s car with a bloody towel to my mouth and he was driving me to the hospital. He told me later as did others, that I was a walking talking zombie on the sidelines with blood running down my chin and onto my shirt, and they had to convince me I needed to go to the hospital…and I remember none of this, nor did I the very next day…or ever!
From this true life event I can see this happening to CR, and the drink and drugs prob did not help. Lauren probably realized he was not himself after the confrontation and this was the main reason she walked him home, like me he was functioning by walking and talking but not making any sense. This also shows Laurens character as a person, that she was willing to walk with him at that time in the morning to make sure he got home…a good person.
It also makes CR’s roommate’s story about putting CR to bed more believable as CR may have regained his senses but wished for nothing more than to lay down. And with no visible injuries both Lauren and the roommate assumed he would be ok…they are not MDs. I think it was this event that brought Lauren back to the 5 North building and she became aware that JR was still up and partying so she decided to stop by
Has anyone asked the question if Rosenbaum or any of the other kids sold cocaine?
I don't want to make wild accusations, but drugs can make connections that get things like murder, kidnapping, and money laundering are possible. Body disposal is part of that.
We all know, if you don't google this, that the mexican drug cartels stretch deep into the U.S. and if this is the case, is it an impossibility that one of these kids called a 'superior' in the cartel to help dispose of a body that would expose their drug dealing and implicate people further up the ladder for the smuggling.
Is smuggling a duffle bag of drugs any harder than one small body?
Could the police be protecting rather open support of illegal workers and facilitiation of drug distribution? and this to be an offshoot of those activities.
I find it hard to believe that these kids could pull of something like this flawlessly and, further, possiblity of abduction is becomingless and less in my mind.
According to the posts I have read from both JW’s roommate and someone who knew people at 5 North, Rosenbaum was not a dealer but he most certainly would have had cocaine…. Allegedly.
I’m now concerned about the talk of a friend from Mich. who supposedly was visiting JW and if there is any truth to it. If true, when did this person arrive? Was s/he seen with him sometime Friday and the story evolved from there, or did others see s/he Thursday night and know this person was there prior?
(I find it hard to believe that these kids could pull of something like this flawlessly)
It may very well be that she Oded and JW panicked and acted alone by throwing her in the dumpster by the 5 North building as others have suggested. The statistics do show that a dumpster is one way many dispose of an Oded victim…And from what people are saying about him, he is incapable of making an elaborate plan of disposal alone… Could be simple dumb luck that she wasn’t discovered in the garbage removal process.
I guess i just think those odds are small enough that that is not the case. If those kids, the friends, know anything you'd think that they would not have the level of hubris to accomplish covering their tracks.
And if they were buying/using the cocaine from/with a NARC and she OD'd... Vice wouldn't want that.
But, with the way that the SEC, ATF, FBI, and DEA all operate i wouldn't doubt that they would 'let the drugs walk' to see where they go...
and why would wolff be doing this? isn't he at home in bed then? and if not, how can we implicate him hiding the body in a dumpster? Would he have known the dumpster schedule?
Is ther still video evidence that has not been released? If so, is it politically volatile? hence the suppression? Could they have picked that one picture for us to see because all of the other pictures were her stumbling around and throwing up?
At ANY rate, if she OD'd those cool kat idiots could have just left her in the road and she would have fared better...
(and why would wolff be doing this? isn't he at home in bed then? and if not, how can we implicate him hiding the body in a dumpster? Would he have known the dumpster schedule?)
I imagine this was meant for me....sorry, I typed JW instead of JR
Lauren’s body could have been placed into a vehicle with the same risk as a dumpster, but this would be high risk as well if seen, especially after Lauren is reported missing. To avoid any video capture and tracing through its route out of town all one has to do in this situation is wait until the Friday morning rush hour traffic begins and simply pull into it and blend in…Since the 5 North Building is without video surveillance, there would be no record of it’s arrival or departure from that address. And its arrival could have been between 4:00-4:30 AM when still dark.
One possible scenario is this:
Lauren enters JR’s apt at 3:15 AM, JR and her snort some cocaine, but not much since JR has little left by this time. Lauren goes into his bathroom and snorts more from her own supply, (it is alleged that coke was found in LS room at Smallwood). She suffers cardiac arrest while in the bathroom and JR is unaware. Eventually he realizes she is in the bathroom way to long and investigates, he finds her already passed, no pulse and blue at aprox 3:50-4:00 AM.
He does one of two things; one, he panics wraps Lauren up in something and takes her out to the dumpster.
Two, he panics and calls home, this is more likely from what we now know about him. Things begin to happen fast as calls are made by the family to connections in B-town. By 4:15 AM JR is advised to make the call to DR as an alibi of Lauren still being alive at this time. Someone arrives between 4:30-4:45 AM and Lauren is placed in that vehicle before the sun rises. Same person helps JR clean up any mess in the bathroom and waits until the Friday morning rush hour begins between 6:30-7:00 AM, also advising JR on what to do and say. This person is spotted leaving JR’s place and driving away, when questioned JR says it is a friend from Mich who stopped by late that night while on the road to take a nap and visit him.
#2 is entirely based on the visitor from Mich rumor being true.
This thing has stalled, complete standstill...Searches slowed, PD not talking, everyone lawyered up..This thing has just stopped..
where does arjun b and Ajay A fit in? Seems they are somehow players in what went down that night.
I think JR's mystery houseguest tried to walk an-out-of-it LS home @ 3:30am. When LS absolutely collapsed/passed out/fell unconscious, the out-of-towner didnt know how to get back to her place. i.e. LS was setting the course back to Smallwood until she passed out. @ 3:38am: He threw her over his shoulder and did the only thing he could do, returned to JR's place with her. It's now 4am, JR and the guest can't revive her. JR calls Rohn hoping to gain access to Smallwood, dump LS into her own bed, or at least into her own hallway, but Rohn doesnt answer. Lucky for JR 'cause the cameras would've nabbed him entering Smallwood w/ the unconscious LS. So now JR and his guest devise some sort of plan...maybe the houseguest just drove her out of town @ 430am in his vehicle, leaving JR to tell authorities "she left my place @ 4:30am". No videos @ the townhomes, right? Or did I miss some sort of confirmation that the houseguest was still in JR's townhome on Friday later in the morning? thoughts?
Do we have confirmation that there was a house guest at JR's place?? If so that would be another place to start searching.... wherever the "house guest" lives. And certainly they would have on security camera/traffic camera that car? Is this the POI that they are not releasing? Still the one thing that confuses me, if they are targeting (BPD) JR or friend, why take the dogs recently to JW's place? That kinda sends a signal that BPD have no idea or focus on anyone... right?
I like bornbtowns' theory. Give us ten minutes in a room with JR and 20 minutes with the house guest and we will give you a probable scenario within a 99 percent certainty as to whether either were involved.
A BODY was found to7 p.m. A witness told a 911 dispatcher they saw a body floating in Fall Creek, lodged in some debris. Officers located the "badly decomposing" female body near the bank of the creek.
It is unknown if this is a missing woman from Indy or perhaps our big break.
Anonymous,
I've actually updated my theory:
Once LS arrives back @ JR’s townhome around 3am, JR has sex with the unable-to-truly-consent LS. Maybe JR’s mystery house-guest does also. Then the mystery house-guest sets out to walk the out-of-it LS home @ 3:35am – she’s too out-of-it to notice she doesnt have her apartment keys.
When LS absolutely collapsed/passed out/fell unconscious, the out-of-towner didnt know how to get back to her place. i.e. LS was setting the course back to Smallwood until she passed out. @ 3:38am: He threw her over his shoulder and did the only thing he could do, returned to JR’s place with her.
It’s now 4am, JR and the guest can’t revive her. They look around and see her apartment keys aren’t anywhere to be found. JR calls Rohn hoping to gain access to Smallwood, to dump LS into her own bed, or at least into her own hallway, but Rohn doesnt answer. Lucky for JR ’cause the video cameras would’ve nabbed him entering Smallwood w/ the unconscious LS.
So now JR and his guest have a decision to make….call 911? Knowing their DNA will be found if she’s examined (and JR, for one, will be shunned within his group of friends and their parents, perhaps leading to a lifetime of shame and ensuing failure as the story follows him wherever he goes), they devise some sort of plan. Maybe the houseguest just drove her out of town @ 4:30am in his vehicle, leaving JR to tell authorities “she left my place @ 4:30am”. The guest takes all drug paraphernalia etc with him.
Indianapolis, where female body was found this evening, is en route, of course, from B'ton to Michigan.
Just heard about the female body found in fall creek... maybe your theory is true? I believe she was found close to 465 on far east side...anybody confirm this? Shouldn't take them long to figure out if this is it.
Update 7-4-11: Yesterday evening around 7:00 p.m. some one called in a sighting of a body in Fall Creek (Marion County.) The badly decomposed female body has yet to be identified. While it is possible that this might be related to the Spierer case, it is more likely to be a missing Indianpolis woman.
"Another friend from Rosenbaum's hometown was also staying at the apartment, said Tamir, who has spoken to Rohn and Rosenbaum."
http://www.lohud.com/article/20110626/NEWS01/106260388/Lauren-Spierer-search-nets-few-leads
still no idea who the friend is from JR's hometown?
I assume JR's friend comes from a high powered family and there is no way his identification will leak out!
RUMORS WAY TOO MANY RUMORS!
Nothing has been substantiated by physical evidence released to the media by police. Bloomington Police Department Captain Joe Qualters confirmed they had heard lots of rumors.
Seem to have hit a nerve on the JR friend and wealth... that narrows it down to 50,000 West Bloomfield kids....
Here is my "Players in the Game"
1.JR rich, unliked student from west bloomfield. Allegedly the last to see JS.
2.JW right or wrong, the boyfriend' exboyfriend is always a person of interest. He was the first to claim that LS was missing. For the first 12 hours or so he appeared cooperative before he lawyered up. His bloomingon residence was recently searched with dogs.
3.MB CR's roommate. Up working on a paper. Saw LS go over to JR's early that morning after he put CR to bed.
4.CR Met LS a few weeks before her disappearance at the 500. Lives in same 5 north townhomes complex as JR. He got drunk, got punched and can't remember anything much. He has cooperated with police despite lawyering up.
5.JR’s visitor. Allegedly JR had a house guest that early morning presumably form West Bloomfield. No one knows for sure...
6.JW’s roommate? What if any role has he played other than to say Jw watched basketball and then went to bed at 2:30.
7.ZO someone who always has a puncher's chance? he allegedly hit CR at Smallwood. He apparently knows CR.
8.AB 10th and college buddy of ZO. Always hanging around?
9.DR someone called him at 4:15 from JR's phone. Apparently present at JR's earlier in the evening.Apparently early in the morning had been at JR's with LS.
10. ZO/AB roommate?
11. AA. the ultimate mystery man also known as AJAY. What role did Ajay play???
All are players. None are suspects. Not all may be people of interest, but they are all interesting.
B.I.B-ton said:
(He threw her over his shoulder and did the only thing he could do, returned to JR's place with her.)
That’s a block and a half walk down Collage than west on 11th with a girl over his shoulder…I think someone would have noticed that! The ally-way and 10th & Morton also have cameras, so he didn’t go that way.
JR01 said:
(why take the dogs recently to JW's place? )
Prob part of the process of elimination…don’t know why they searched his Apt, because if he was involved his auto would hold more clues.
As for the body found in Indy-town, the rumor is (like so many in this case) that the Spierer family was informed that the body is not LS. I would think that LE could establish the height of the victim found rather quickly.
Update 7-5-11: The official word is that an autopsy of the body is scheduled for Tuesday. Police hope the forensic examination leads to the woman's identity. A press conference has been scheduled for after the autopsy. Unofficially, L.P. has been told that the hair on the decomposed body is similar to that of Lauren's. The teeth, however, do not appear to be Lauren's. Thus, the search is likely to continue.
Is it Dorothy Mae Heard, 74 from Noblesville, Indiana? She has been missing since around 8 a.m. on June 13. Or is it Lauren?
Patience, everyone. The autopsy began about an hour ago. Both families are awaiting official word. But we stand by our tip that it is not likely Lauren.
Patience, everyone. The autopsy began about an hour ago. Both families are awaiting official word. But we stand by our tip that based on the teeth it is not likely Lauren.
So they are not sure if the body found in the creek is LPs'? I would think unless, the other possible woman is 4ft tall you could not tell...but really by height alone you can try to guestimate for the family's sake...
The friends know something....You don't lawyer up with high profile lawyers, (ie an OJ lawyer) because your innocent...
I just wish they would just come clean and let the family finally rest...
Heigth is not real helpful in this case. LS is 4"11 to 5'0" The elder woman is 5'1" to 5'2". Depending on the amount of deteriation, the actual height of the corpse is not readily obtainable without an autopsy, measuring bones and doing computer reconstruction.
While we are constantly reminded that some of the people of interest may be from Indianapolis or have Indianapolis connections, speculation is not really helpful as I suspect any POI with actual knowledge of the situation would know whether this is LS.
The press conference should be within the next hour or so.
My guess is that it is the missing grandmother. Interested players (from anon's list) can probably all breath just a bit easier...)
This body is associated with someone local. While close to 465, if you were headed north, you need to get off of the interstate at exit 40 unless someone pulled over to the shoulder of the interstate and threw the body over.
Noon Update: The tip to L.P. was correct. The coronor confirmed that the body found in Fall Creek was NOT Lauren Spierer.
The body was that of an African American woman
Update to our July of 2008 story on CAsey Anthony: Legal Pub Cautions Not to Rush To Judgment
http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2008/07/legal-pub-cautions-not-to-rush-to.html
Casey Anthony has been found not guilty of murdering her 2-year-old daughter Caylee. The jury declined to convict her of either first degree murder or manslaughter. Casey Anthony was found guilty of four counts of providing false information to law enforcement.
Attorney Jose Baez, held Casey Anthony's hand as she cried while the verdict was read. Casey's parents, Cindy and George Anthony, left the courtroom as Judge Belvin Perry read further instructions to the jury. Casey was fingerprinted in the courtroom for her conviction of providing false information to law enforcement. Casey will be sentenced on the guilty counts on Thursday morning. Prosecutor Jeff Ashton, entered the courtroom to roaring applause. He left hanging his head.
At the beginning, Legal Pub cautioned not to rush to judgment. The reason for the early warning was because cases must be decided on evidence, not sympathy, prejudice or innuendo. Jeff Ashton chose to prove that Casey Anthony was a liar and a party animal. He chose to make her look like a bad person. Well he proved his point by winning the battles. Unfortunately, he lost sight of what it takes to prove murder. In hindsight, many commentators will admit that he should never have tried to prove first degree murder. Most believe Caylee's death was an accident. Subsequent coverup, probably. Murder? Not likely.
Legal Pub said:
(Most believe Caylee's death was an accident. Subsequent coverup, probably. Murder? Not likely.)
I don't think someone would place duct tape over a victims nose and mouth after they are deceased...I think one of the problems were proving that the Anthony girl did this.
Also...women receive much more sympathy from a jury than a male and they have a hard time sentencing to a potential death sentence....JMO
Maybe true V.G but I think L.P is right on point. Blake and Simpson also walked.
I never bought the duct tape before she died. I can see why she or someone would put it on after she died. It keeps fluid on a corpse from leaking out and keeps bugs etc from getting in.
It pissed me off when L.P. wrote don't rush to judgment back 3 years ago. But now I can see why he did. And he was right.
The L.P. lawyers always seem to get some good tips. Other times insight as trial lawyers help em estimate the probabilities.
After seeing the results of the anthony trial, it's easy to see why police are proceeding slowly in the Spierer case.
JR’s mystery guest has been identified at T. Gatto…not sure if it is correct so I will not post it here. They also say he left B-town on June 3rd.
This person may have nothing to do with this or may be a POI that LE has kept to themselves.
I'm not sure that it is such a good idea for the police to proceed slowly. Perhaps if they proceeded as quickly as possible they could find Lauren before all forensic evidence is totally gone. It has been proposed that Casey Anthony was acquitted because Caylee's body was so decomposed.
Unfortunately, it is really hard to either praise or criticize LE given that we have no idea what they do or do not know.
At this point, it doesn't seem likely that there will be a resolution to Lauren't disappearance
(Perhaps if they proceeded as quickly as possible they could find Lauren before all forensic evidence is totally gone.)
Like i said before, Lauren will never be found. Between JR's and his friends family's $$$ and his friends family's political clout...she is long gone. And not tossed in a dumpster either.
Why do you think this guys name was never mentioned by LE and the press? Apparently he was there in the early morning hours when JR and LS were.
I'm also thinking it was JW's crowd who released the name, they don't want him to go unnoticed.
By proceeding slowly, I mean it is best police wait until they have a body before they consider calling a grand jury.
So, there is strong rumors as to the id of the house guest of JR. That does not mean he was involved in LS disappearance.
Quite frankly, no motive for anyone to kill LS. As to the OD and hide the body, why bother? Could have just called an ambulance and let them take care of it all.
FACT IS WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE ANY CRIME WAS COMMITTED WITH REGARD TO LS. ALL THAT ANYONE CAN SAY TO ANY DEGREE OF CONFIDENCE IS THAT THE YOUNG WOMAN IS MISSING AFTER AN EARLY MORNING OF BEING WITH FRIENDS AND AQUANTANCES.
THE PERSONS OF INTEREST ARE INDEED INTERESTING PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE NO WHERE NEAR SUSPECTS. GIVE THEM A BREAK AND LET THEM GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES.
(So, there is strong rumors as to the id of the house guest of JR. That does not mean he was involved in LS disappearance.)
OK...so why didn't this guest step forward to confirm JR's story that Lauren left at 4:30 AM ? If they are the type of guys who would call an Ambulance to save her life if she did OD, and deal with the consequences after...it is not the drug allegations that is stopping this guy from verifying JR's story...it is something else!
I agree, something doesn't add up. And as to why not just call an ambulance, what do they have to lose......... i'd say a lot! Drugs charges,kicked out of school maybe, family name, scholarship maybe...the list goes on and on. Plus probably not in the right frame of mind after a 2 day coke binge , maybe? Just saying.
(GIVE THEM A BREAK AND LET THEM GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES.)
NO...let them go back to Indiana with their lawyers and let LE interview them. This phone-in crap through the lawyer is bull and adds to suspicion.
Let them meet the investigators of this case face to face!
I also think that Lauren's boyfriend, who has come under suspicion here because of JR's story, is very much aware of what went down by now...and wants the truth to come out.
LETS ASSUME THE HOUSE GUEST WENT TO SLEEP A 3:00 A.M. CAN'T CONFIRM OR DENY JR STORY. NOW ASSUMING THATS THE CASE, NOT MUCH TO SAY IS THERE.
AND IF YOU STOP ASSUMING, BEGIN WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE HOUSE GUEST HAS NOT TALKED WITH POLICE. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO SAID WHAT OTHER THAN WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPER. GIVE IT A REST. THE POI ARE PROBABLY NOT GUILTY OF NOTHING BUT BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.
Good point, Fact Is. i don't think the ambulance would have done anything other than take LS to the hospital. Cops would only likly investigate the next day and that is only if LS died.
These are kids not crooks.
Update 7-11-11: The public's thirst for knowledge has generated wild speculation and rumor. It is extremely unlikely that Lauren Spierer ran off to Isreal or anywhere else without her shoes and cell phone. (Heck now days young adults don't typically leave the house without the ability to text. See Legal Pub article on sexting. LINK.) Similarly, it is unlikely that professionals were "called in" to dispose of a body. More likely the remains will turn up someday in a field or body of water. If that does not happen, then the remains may have made it to a land fill. Law enforcement continues to investigate and follow up leads. When they are ready to come forward, they certainly will do so.
(LETS ASSUME THE HOUSE GUEST WENT TO SLEEP A 3:00 A.M. CAN'T CONFIRM OR DENY JR STORY. NOW ASSUMING THATS THE CASE, NOT MUCH TO SAY IS THERE.)
Since you seem to be so cock sure of yourself maybe you have some insight to this case.
Was the house guest sleeping on the couch at 3 AM?
Was he eating breakfast at 10 AM in B-town, if so who was he with?
What time did he arrive at JR’s residence in B-town and why was he visiting?
Was he there at JR’s at 12:45 AM when Lauren and DR were there?
BTW…No need for the caps’ it appears that you are screaming at people.
There is information being released about a registered sex offender in the area who works at the Waffle House on College Ave. His route from home to work would take him right past College and 11th. It is said he has two convictions but apparently (rumor) his victims are of a much younger age. Usually these guys choose the same type of victim as we would choose a brand of cigarettes, beer or TV program…it is what they like. They sometimes change their victim type but rarely, and granted Laurens size and demeanor could appear like a much younger person…but one has to ask, what was he doing on College Ave at 4:30 AM besides heading to work at the Waffle House ? If he was out trolling for victims he would have been doing this earlier in the day when his victim type is out and about.
The only logical reason he would be on Collage Ave at that time in the morning would be on his way to work, and if he decide to abduct Lauren as an opportunity abduction, than he would have not made it to work.
The first people looked at in such an abduction case are these types of offenders, and that is what LE did. But they continue to focus on the last people to see Lauren that morning which leads me to believe that this offender has a rock solid alibi. He was probably at work with all kinds of people around.
BTW, the rumors that are floating around are coming from the kids directly involved with the many POI’s. One has to assume there is some truth entangled within.
(These are kids not crooks.)
And kids are what Toni Lawrence age 15, Hope Rippey age 15, Melinda Loveless age 16, and Laurie Tackett age 17, were when they kidnapped and murdered Shanda Sharer.
Now I have never considered or posted in any way that these kids in Laurens case were associated with such a crime as murder, and I have stated that Lauren is responsible of what she ingests. But apparently the investigation is centered around the 5 North building and what happened there that morning, and maybe some good kids made a bad decision.
What I really have a problem with is if there was trouble that morning and these good kids called the adults in their lives for help and advice, and bad advice was given. And if these adults gave this bad advice because they are of wealth and privilege than we must hold them accountable as the law must apply to them in the same way as the rest of the population… or we will have decent from all classes and cultures of this nation as they will feel the need to not follow the rule of law if it only applies to them.
That is the big picture here...
True V.G.
If adults gave advice to coverup, that is wrong. Unfortunately to date there is no publiv evidence that establishes what really happened.
Now, a sex offender on his way to work is a possibility if they don't have an alebi. But it could be any perv on his way to work. Who all has a shift or a break during the 3 am to 5 am period?
Once we find names, then lets inquire as to their where abouts during this critical period of time.
It was a coward who disposed of LS body. The world needs a hero to come forward with information that will lead to the finding of her remains. Please be a hero and come forward with information, the world needs you...
Seems like more and more blogs etc are no longer allowing Spierer comments. I can understand why L.P. wants posters to distinguish between fact and opinions etc.
So here is an opinion: investigation will push forward real soon.
Kelly Wold apparently did not see LS on the street that early morning. Kelly is a 20-year-old employee of the Les Champs Elysees spa and salon. She was out walking alone in a sundress on 11th Street at 3:45 a.m. on her way home. Kelly would have walked right past 5 North Townhomes where Rossman's and Rosenbaum live.
If she didn't see Spierer at 3:45, then at least during that time frame LS is not on the street.
Wold's roommate apparently came in that morning around 4:20. Again, no apparent sighting of LS on the streets at that time.
Courtney Kraft, a 23-year-old lives at 5 North immediately between Rossman's place and Rosenbaum's. She apparently did not see anything out of the ordinary that evening.
Assuming Kraft and Wold are accurate, several points come to mind:
1. it is not unusual for 20 year old women to walk home on college in the early morning hours.
2. It is not unusual for 20 year old girls to walk home alone without a male escort
3. other that T.G's unidentified bar manager, no one seems to recall seeing LS that morning out on the streets after 3 A.M.
I would like to see you post on the time line the homeless man at 4:30 who alleges that he heard a scream.
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